Oh shit, you're right. (In fairness, though, Raikou doesn't have an analysis either.)
It's not like it's a fixed-set mon, either, although Spikes and Surf are basically never dropped.
Dragonite learns Ice Beam, dude.
-
Tournaments
Check out the 2025 Tournament Calendar and join our discord server to participate in our tournaments!
GSC OU Viable movesets in GSC OU
- Thread starter Sceptross
- Start date
It's not like it's a fixed-set mon, either, although Spikes and Surf are basically never dropped.
I mean ib hpelec cloy is cool with some teams, clamp screech is cool, rapid spin, standard surf toxic boom. I wouldnt say cloy is diverse, but he has a good amount of sets
donphan only gets encore from a japanese version event phanpy, which in my understanding is not permitted in competitive gsc (not that i agree with that... amerikkkan chauvinist af).
if pp is allowing japanese version event moves thats honestly a rly big deal, encore is huge in gsc and even more so on a pokemon immune to thunder (and twave) paralysis. and the set would def not be encore + roar. im not going to go into it more bc im guessing encore was most likely listed by mistake but if encore donphan is allowed then at minimum its viability goes way up and honestly prob affects several other pokes viability if not most of the tier
if pp is allowing japanese version event moves thats honestly a rly big deal, encore is huge in gsc and even more so on a pokemon immune to thunder (and twave) paralysis. and the set would def not be encore + roar. im not going to go into it more bc im guessing encore was most likely listed by mistake but if encore donphan is allowed then at minimum its viability goes way up and honestly prob affects several other pokes viability if not most of the tier
If Japanese and American cart ecosystems can communicate, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be allowed?
They can't though (source)If Japanese and American cart ecosystems can communicate, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be allowed?
Without breaking symmetry with cartridge, it's necessary to either ban Japanese versions or ban non-Japanese versions (non-Japanese versions, including the Korean version of GSC, can trade and battle with other non-Japanese versions but not with Japanese versions).
What exactly is "amerikkkan chauvinist" about wanting cartridge replication and picking the international versions?
its totally arbitrary and obv not coincidental since there is not any generation where the japanese version is chosen as the competitive standard. its a japanese game. or could alternate (have the tier switch between japanese cartridge and international) or im sure other possibilities.
and even if that is the choice that is made there could at least be some acknowledgment of it somewhere? this has come up on multiple servers (at incorrectly listing encore phanpy specifically) and there is no clause or tier policy or anything anywhere on either here or smogon that gives any indication that the international version is chosen (or a note that its due to compatibility which clearly isnt common knowledge since ppl asked about it here and also when this previously came up i think on smogon, which is the only reason i knew ‘this time’ abt the incompatibility.) given the level of precision abt all sorts of other things when it comes to tier policies etc, selecting a version is something that tremendously effects the tier and the fact that there is no acknowledgment of it anywhere (and also incorrect references to pokemon that are only available in the disallowed version) amounts to erasure that it is a japanese game and the existence of japanese versions.
and even if that is the choice that is made there could at least be some acknowledgment of it somewhere? this has come up on multiple servers (at incorrectly listing encore phanpy specifically) and there is no clause or tier policy or anything anywhere on either here or smogon that gives any indication that the international version is chosen (or a note that its due to compatibility which clearly isnt common knowledge since ppl asked about it here and also when this previously came up i think on smogon, which is the only reason i knew ‘this time’ abt the incompatibility.) given the level of precision abt all sorts of other things when it comes to tier policies etc, selecting a version is something that tremendously effects the tier and the fact that there is no acknowledgment of it anywhere (and also incorrect references to pokemon that are only available in the disallowed version) amounts to erasure that it is a japanese game and the existence of japanese versions.
Um, you're complaining about people allowing Japanese versions and also about people disallowing Japanese versions. This strikes me as somewhat inconsistent.
You're not going to get any argument from me about proper tiering documentation, though.
Also, there's Iron Tail Steelix (Explosion or Substitute as fourth).
EDIT:
WRT Mirror Coat Suicune, it's actually a really legit move, because of how badly it messes up the Raikou vs. Suicune matchup (some of this also applies to Zapdos). Come at it from the Raikou POV, assuming that Suicune is going to Mirror Coat.
If you STAB, you die.
If you Hidden Power, nothing happens (HP Water/Ice does ~same damage that Leftovers heals).
If you Roar, nothing happens because Mirror Coat is decreased priority and goes after Raikou's Roar.
Your only options are to either switch out (ha!) or to spam HP and/or Roar attempting to drain Suicune of Mirror Coat PP. A Raikou that is guaranteed to not Thunder is a much less scary Raikou.
But wait, Suicune has a fourth move, and Toxic, Roar and Sleep Talk all turn the screw on Raikou even harder. Toxic on the switch means Suicune can force Raikou to either Rest (making it far more vulnerable) or switch out. Roar lets Suicune get the jump on Raikou, because Suicune's Roar beats Raikou's and by Mirror Coating most of the time Raikou is too scared to STAB (the correct predict for a Suicune Roar). Sleep Talk means Raikou is playing even odds with its STAB even when Suicune is asleep:
If Raikou hits Suicune and Sleep Talk selects Surf, Raikou wins.
If Raikou hits Suicune and Sleep Talk selects Rest, nothing happens (so this can be ignored)
If Raikou hits Suicune and Sleep Talk selects Mirror Coat, Suicune wins (because it still goes after Raikou).
Mirror Coat makes the Electrics' lives miserable even if they know it's there (unless they have HP Grass, lol). It's not just a matter of surprise (though surprise helps).
EDIT:
WRT Mirror Coat Suicune, it's actually a really legit move, because of how badly it messes up the Raikou vs. Suicune matchup (some of this also applies to Zapdos). Come at it from the Raikou POV, assuming that Suicune is going to Mirror Coat.
If you STAB, you die.
If you Hidden Power, nothing happens (HP Water/Ice does ~same damage that Leftovers heals).
If you Roar, nothing happens because Mirror Coat is decreased priority and goes after Raikou's Roar.
Your only options are to either switch out (ha!) or to spam HP and/or Roar attempting to drain Suicune of Mirror Coat PP. A Raikou that is guaranteed to not Thunder is a much less scary Raikou.
But wait, Suicune has a fourth move, and Toxic, Roar and Sleep Talk all turn the screw on Raikou even harder. Toxic on the switch means Suicune can force Raikou to either Rest (making it far more vulnerable) or switch out. Roar lets Suicune get the jump on Raikou, because Suicune's Roar beats Raikou's and by Mirror Coating most of the time Raikou is too scared to STAB (the correct predict for a Suicune Roar). Sleep Talk means Raikou is playing even odds with its STAB even when Suicune is asleep:
If Raikou hits Suicune and Sleep Talk selects Surf, Raikou wins.
If Raikou hits Suicune and Sleep Talk selects Rest, nothing happens (so this can be ignored)
If Raikou hits Suicune and Sleep Talk selects Mirror Coat, Suicune wins (because it still goes after Raikou).
Mirror Coat makes the Electrics' lives miserable even if they know it's there (unless they have HP Grass, lol). It's not just a matter of surprise (though surprise helps).
Last edited: