RBY 2U Viability Rankings

[Ortheore]

Welcome to the RBY 2U Viability Ranking Thread! In case you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in certain ranks here, based on their impact on the tier as well as their general viability in the tier. This can be an excellent help while teambuilding and it serves as a general outline of the tier.

If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it - that's what this thread is for. As long as you are reasonably sensible and courteous this thread should run smoothly.

Pokémon are sorted into the respective categories based on how well they perform their roles. Within each ranking Pokemon are listed alphabetically to avoid overcomplication.

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Important note:

The decision to decide on what is considered a member of the tier (i.e. banned from all tiers below it) may involve the viability rankings (e.g. everything B and above 2U, everything D and below not 2U, everything C up for discussion).

Pokemon Perfect's Tiers

Broken Rank

These are Pokemon that are banned from the tier for being too good in some sense.

None. Moltres and Articuno were banned in 2U-L17, but are no longer banned

Cthulhu Rank
Tentacruel is the defining pokemon of RBY 2U, and dominates the metagame to a profound extent. Pokemon rise and fall based on their matchup with this behemoth, and no team should be without their own Tentacruel or their own answers to it.

Tentacruel - Analysis

S Rank

These are the top Pokemon of the tier, that you should put on most serious teams that you create. These Pokemon excel at their roles in the tier to such a point that they are dominating forces.

Hypno - Analysis*

A Rank

These Pokemon are exceptional at their roles, performing significant roles in the metagame, however they are not dominating forces.

Articuno

Dragonite

Dugtrio

Kadabra - Analysis*

Kangaskhan - Analysis*

B Rank

These Pokemon are strong choices in the metagame, but may suffer from inconsistency due to luck or matchup much moreso than the Pokemon in the Rank above. They have larger flaws or competition from other similar Pokemon which reduce their usefulness, but they're still considered metagame staples.

Dodrio - Analysis*

Electabuzz

Gyarados - Analysis*

Haunter - Analysis*

Omastar

Persian - Analysis*

Raichu - Analysis*

Vaporeon

C Rank

These Pokemon are more infrequent sights in the metagame, particularly in top level matches, but are nevertheless very viable Pokemon. They suffer from larger flaws than the Pokemon in the above rank.

Clefable - Analysis*

Dewgong

Golduck

Moltres

Poliwrath - Analysis*

Raticate - Analysis*

Sandslash

Tangela

Victreebel - Analysis*


D Rank

These Pokemon are very rare sights in top level matches, and suffer from more crippling flaws. They require a lot of support to be effective, and may have consistency issues.

Charizard

Exeggcute

Kingler

Machamp

Mr. Mime

Pinsir

Poliwhirl

Rapidash

Staryu

Venusaur

*These analyses are for RBY 2U-L17 and are therefore not to be taken as representative of the current tier. They remain listed because there may be some similarity in function between the different tiers

 

[Ortheore]

Changes relative to the thread for 2U-L17:

Don A->1U. rip
Dnite 1U->S. It's really really good. AgiWrap is a thing, but its immense BST ensures it is a multidimensional two-way threat, not the one-trick pony it is in 1U.
Gyara A->B. Dnite is better than this for the most part. Also it benefitted from Don's presence, and Dnite is now forcing it to run Blizzard, which isn't ideal
Omastar ???->B. Great Dragonite check, its lack of coverage is far from crippling in a tier where there aren't any other good water types besides Gyara, which is at least Blizz-neutral. Also EQ isn't common, which is cool
Electabuzz D->B. Don is gone, Psychic is a good coverage option now.
Haunter B->A. There were calls for it to be A in the L17 thread, and Don leaving and being replaced by Dnite is easily enough to tip it into that category

edit: I haven't considered D tier tbh, and I barely looked at C
gonna go ahead and drop some theorymon: Dug and the Fires drop out of the rankings (we could do lower ranks if we really want to). Sandslash slides to D, as does Venusaur. In all those cases they get checked by Dnite while being unable to threaten it with reliable status or decent coverage (assuming Sleep has already been used, and that Rock Slide is not adequate coverage if you have base 100 atk or less). Also if Oma can jump to B (I think it can), can we also make a case for Kabutops? Maybe only D, since it's not as good as Oma, especially since it has a different role

edit2: I may be overreacting on the Fire types, since it's not as though Don was kind to them either- both Don and Dnite checked them, it's just Dnite is a LOT better than Don

 

[Disaster Area]

Omastar ???->B. Great Dragonite check, its lack of coverage is far from crippling in a tier where there aren't any other good water types besides Gyara, which is at least Blizz-neutral. Also EQ isn't common, which is cool

tentacruel

 

[GGFan]

I strongly disagree that Haunter is on the same level of Tentacruel, even with its ability to switch into Wrap with impunity. It still takes at least 25% from Blizzard/Fire Blast (I believe Fire Blast may have a niche specifically to burn incoming Haunters, thereby ruining their suicide missions), which is concerning if Dragonite has already used Agility. From there it can fire off another attack, shrug off the Thunderbolt, and then Wrap to something faster. Tentacruel, on the other hand, is the only high-ranked Pokemon in the tier who can OHKO Dragonite guaranteed besides Gyarados, except Gyara is slower than Dragonite and is terrifed of Thunderbolt. Tentacruel is not only more reliable at disposing of Dragonite than Haunter is, but is often way more devastating because it also has Wrap. The 2U World Championship is evidence of how dominant Tentacruel is, with or without Hyper Beam.

If Haunter is A, Tentacruel is S. I believe every serious 2U team should have Tentacruel in it. It either pulls wins out of nowhere or crushes the opposition with that sky-high Special.

 

[EB0LA]

Why is Raichu A, and Electabuzz B?
Surf isn't needed much at all anymore, and Psychic is the better option. (Victreebell+Haunter) Not to mention Electabuzz out-speeds Tentacruel, Dodrio, & Charizard, while Raichu only speed-ties them. (Buzz speed-ties with Kadabra [Raichu is slower]). Raichu hits slightly more, but buzz carries slightly more bulk.
Raichu is still pretty good but, with Rhydon gone to OU, Electabuzz becomes the top electric for this tier.

Raichu ↓ B ↓
Electabuzz ↑ A ↑

 

[Ortheore]

I always forget Tentacruel lol. Anyway I've always felt Tenta's defensive limitations kept it in A tier, but GGFan I'm aware you've found a lot of success with it. I'm not opposed to Tenta in S, but I'd like to hear more from other people before making the change

edit: I'm aware Haunt's anti-Dnite utility is liable to be overrated, but it's nonetheless relevant as you say, and Don was also a factor working against Haunter. Anyway, I don't think burns are enough to justify using FB over Blizz when it's such a big factor in the Dnite matchup

Why is Raichu A, and Electabuzz B?
Surf isn't needed much at all anymore, and Psychic is the better option. (Victreebell+Haunter) Not to mention Electabuzz out-speeds Tentacruel, Dodrio, & Charizard, while Raichu only speed-ties them. (Buzz speed-ties with Kadabra [Raichu is slower]). Raichu hits slightly more, but buzz carries slightly more bulk.
Raichu is still pretty good but, with Rhydon gone to OU, Electabuzz becomes the top electric for this tier.

Raichu ↓ B ↓
Electabuzz ↑ A ↑

The reason I didn't initially swap them is because I felt it's a pretty major change to make. I actually agree with you that Buzz is probably better, so I might go ahead and make the swap.

While we're on the topic, double electric is intriguing. It suffers far less from matchup issues than in 1U, but both pokemon are frail as hell, a fact somewhat mitigated by their excellent typing

 

[CrapAtRBY]

Clefable felt better than C in the matches I've had so far, nice bulk and good against DNite with TWave and Blizzard. It does have 4MSS but on the flipside all of it options are threatening so you can keep your opponent guessing which can make switching in to it difficult if you haven't revealed all four moves.

It can spread para, has Sing in its back pocket. There's a lot less non-normal physical moves floating round and regarding the two that do (unless I'm brainfarting), Clefable 2HKOs Dodrio guaranteed with both T-Bolt and Blizzard and excluding crits Kanagaskhan needs 3 EQs before Hyper Beam is guaranteed (It's guaranteed with 2 literally only if both are max rolls) making Counter a really solid option imo.

 

[CrapAtRBY]

Also that 2U/3U dividing line is wrong unless and until we rejig Electabuzz, OMastar and anything else that might fare better now

 

[Ortheore]

Also that 2U/3U dividing line is wrong unless and until we rejig Electabuzz, OMastar and anything else that might fare better now

woops lol I'll fix that up

I'm strongly in favour of Clef moving up to B. iirc not everyone agreed on Clef's merits though. I remember someone saying that Clef is a low risk low reward pick, which it can be if you're just slapping it on a team (me most of the time I use it), but it certainly has the tools to be really threatening

 

[Ortheore]

Thoughts on Dug to C? It may not be the greatest pokemon overall, but it's a pretty phenomenal anti-lead, while its revenge killing utility is more valuable than ever- it can switch in on Buzz if need be, something that was much riskier when Raichu was the pick. In terms of Water types, since GGFan's run in the WC I think more people are running Tenta which obviously benefits Dug, while Gyara is a lot less common. Dnite is a bit of an issue, but it can potentially run Toxic to at least avert an AgiWrap sweep (stole this idea from Kaz).

On the topic of Tenta, I'm still not sold on it in S. I'm not disputing its offensive prowess, as its Special is only just shy of the legendary birds, while Wrap gives it the tools to whittle down many would-be checks, such that walling it is not something that's all that feasible. It is prone to revenge killing via the common Kadabra and Electabuzz, and the less common Dug, which does limit it somewhat. The issue is that I struggle to find openings for it over the course of a match, which really limits its impact, while it doesn't offer the great teambuilding synergy that something like Hypno does.

Dragonite's still ridiculous though, may actually be broken.

 

[Ortheore]

Triple posting come at me

So I never posted my thoughts after my match against p5726 or w/e numbers are in their name. I'm going to go ahead and bump Dug to C, I honestly think it ought to be B though. Being faster than everything else is fantastic, especially in a tier where there are increasing numbers of fast, frail attackers that are vulnerable to it. Dug can switch in once or twice vs a few things (Electabuzz most notably, also Kadabra if it can avoid Psychic) and it revenge kills a LOT- Buzz, Kadabra, Tenta and Haunter are some of the most notable.

Thoughts on Raichu to C? It doesn't really have any reason to be used over Buzz atm. Dual electric is also possible, but would need more testing because it has some flaws

Thoughts on Gyara and Bel dropping to C? The biggest issues are that their typings are mediocre and their speed is poor, which makes them incredibly difficult to use right now. They don't really serve much purpose defensively, Bel's a pretty poor status spreader because so many things wall/threaten it, while Gyara's a hit and run attacker that has a hard time comfortably entering play.

I still support Clef to B by the way. Its attack stat is enough to threaten physically frail pokemon, it's a great status spreader and by virtue of its typing it has few bad matchups (normal resisters are a problem depending on coverage)

Has anyone used much of C rank? At the very least Venu seems like it could move down based on the fact that it's worse than Bel, which is itself struggling. I might have to make some teams for them and test them myself

 

[Ortheore]

Yo ppl I need some discussion, I can't just be making things up on my own

So Articuno and Moltres are now unbanned. I've slotted them in A for the time being, as they're extremely potent, but part of the reason they're being retested is that the current meta is kinda hostile to them

Tenta to S. It was borderline S before, adding MoltCuno to the mix makes Tenta a no-brainer for S.

Dropped Dragonite to A. I keep waiting for it to prove itself broken, but it hasn't thus far, and with the addition of yet more powerhouse type pokemon it becomes a little harder to fit onto teams, as there's only so many threats you can cram onto a team

Dropped Khan to B. It's really frail on the special side in a tier full of potent special attackers, on top of which its speed tier just isn't good enough

Bumped Dug to B. Tbh I think it should be A. Anyway, fast, good matchup against a lot of popular things, but might struggle with Dnite and now MoltCuno.

Dropped Raichu and Victreebel to C. Raichu is simply outclassed by Buzz in this environment due to Buzz's speed, otherwise they're practically indistinguishable. Bel to C because flying and psychic types everywhere make things terrible for it.

Bumped Vaporeon to C, also added Dewgong to C. Vap's a really strong MoltCuno check, but I have my doubts about it as it's fodder for Tenta. Same applies to Dewgong, but Gong differs in that it hard counters Articuno by being immune to freeze, although obviously struggling against Molt.

Added Staryu to D. For those who didn't play the prior incarnation of 2U when the birds were unbanned, Staryu is notable for being able to barely tank Articuno's attacks, while obviously having Recover and TWave. Can't quite claim the same thing for Molt, as FB+HBeam KOs due to Molt's better attack

Edit: Dropped Venu to D. Same reasoning as for Bel.

 

[marcoasd]

Most of the rankings look fair, especially the A rank on birds.

I thought Kangaskhan was going to suck, but it takes Dugtrio's attacks pretty well, can take 2 Psychics and Rock Slide allows it to beat Articuno (speed ties Moltres, 2HKO both ways). It fails the Tentacruel test, could be A anyway.

Haunter is pretty unreliable, it's going to see its share of play but I'm not sure it's good enough for A.

Dugtrio is a dangerous sweeper, and when Dnite is not around it looks very well worth of A rank (personally, I'm not using Dnite currently as Cruel is better at doing Dnite things).

Raichu's Surf is better than Electabuzz's Psychic against Ground-Types, and its function is to complete a 2HKO; you don't want to let Dugtrio sweep two pokemon though (and putting yourself two times at risk of getting crit) - basically, it's a tool to take out a Dugtrio which has been hit by EQ during a Dugtrio ditto or by Hypno's Psychic.
All in all, Raichu and Electabuzz are very close, I'd say Raichu is B.

 

[CrapAtRBY]

I think Dugtrio is definitely A, its speed plus T-Wave immunity means it can pretty much always get two attacks off against anything, it's bulk and is garbage and water/grass/ice weakness sucks but it can still force a lot out of the tier's mainstays, a crit OHKO's the entirety of S and A except for Hypno (which will often take Sleep) and Dragonite.

Agree with Haunter to B too, it's lead match-ups ultiamtely aren't that great and it easily gets revenge killed by Duggy. Wrap immunity is cool but it's not great against Dragonite or even Tenta despite TBolt+Psychic.

 

[Lusch]

So... Time to drop my thoughts on the tier.

This tier revolves around Tentacruel, which is easily the best Pokemon in it, due to having 100 Base speed Wrap and 120 Base special, enabling it to check the Legendary Birds plus Dragonite and basically any Water type in the tier. It makes it so that the best answers to Tentacruel are the few Pokemon that naturally outspeed it and can hit it super effectively -Electabuzz/Raichu [Raichu only speed ties], Kadabra and Dugtrio- all of which are frail, and in Kadabra's case hard to keep away from paralysis thanks to the second most dominant Pokemon in the tier, Hypno. So if anything in this tier in its current form needs to be in discussion for a ban, it is Tentacruel.

As hinted in the above paragraph, you also have your RBY-typical Psychic types in this tier. Here they are Hypno, which is generally hard to take down and can threaten basically anything with T-Wave, leading to itself being its best answer; and Kadabra, being a fast and strong revenge killer and Psychic switch-in, having access to Thunderwave as well.

Where there are Psychic types in RBY, Normal types won't be far away. The Normal Types of this tier are Kangaskhan, Persian and Dodrio (Raticate thoeretically has a niche with Super Fang, but it's not worth using imo). Hard hitters that are not easy to switch into, but also relatively frail on the special side, which makes them manageble.

Then you have the Legendary Birds -Articuno and Moltres- both of which are incredibly powerful but relatively one-dimensional which leaves them both checked by Water types like Vaporeon and the omnipresent Tentacruel. Both even have their respective hard-counters in Omastar [4x resists Fire for Moltres] and Dewgong [4x resists Ice + freeze immune for Articuno], which both come with their advantages and disadvantages: Dewgong does not resist Fire anymore and is generally not as bulky as Vaporeon, but has a stronger Blizzard than other Water Types. Omastar's Rock typing is both a blessing and curse, as it enables it to check the Normal Types of the tier -especially Dodrio and Persian, not so much Kangaskhan- better than Vaporeon and turns it into a counter for Dragonite which cannot even hope to wrap it in range of Thunderbolt. The downside is that it does not take on other Water types as well due to losing the Water resistence and not being able to switch into Dugtrio. Generally, I see Omastar and Vaporeon roughly on the same level and Dewgong below the two, but it does have its merit, I think.

Next you have the Electric types, Electabuzz and Raichu who I see on roughly the same level. Electabuzz' advatage is that it outspeeds Tentacruel as opposed to speed tie like Raichu, but it trades Surf for Psychic, which is worse vs ground types but better vs Haunter. Raichu has access to Agility however which Electabuzz does not; not a huge deal, but it is something.

The Nr.1 Electric check in this tier is Dugtrio because it can switch in on Thunderbolt and outspeed them and most importantly, it outspeeds Tentacruel and is thus a way to threaten it. The speed also helps vs the Legenadary Birds, Dugtrio is able to 2HKO them with Rock Slide. These are the reasons why it is used in place of another Ground type like Sandslash for example. Due to its speed, Dugtrio is one of the most dangerous sweepers in the tier. It is worth noting however, that Dugtrio is weak and does not even OHKO Electabuzz or Raichu.

Since Dugtrio is the fastest used Pokemon in this tier [which comes with that high critical hit chance] one has to have switch-ins that can take 2 hits from it, if need be. The best switch-ins are Gyarados and Dragonite since even Rock Slide does not do that much damage to them and they in return threaten a lot of damage on the opposing Team, once brought in on Dugtrio thanks to their great Attack and good Speacial paired with excellent coverage. You also have the buky Water types, mainly Vaporeon and grass types, mostly Tangela but also Victreebel and Venusaur [which is mostly outclassed by Victreebel, but for switching into Dugtrio specifically is acually better thanks to surperior bulk]. But those Grass types all suffer from the presence of the Legendary Birds and Dragonite and have a hard time achieving much, but still can inflict status like sleep and paralysis.

Which brings me to the sleepers in this tier. Most good Pokemon in the tier that can inflict sleep have to rely on Hypnosis to do so, like Haunter, which is also the only Wrap-immune Pokemon in the tier, and Hypno. Sleep Powder is used by Victreebel and Tangela, which like mentioned have a hard time dealing with prominent threats of the tier. Other options with an "accurate" Sleep Powder are available, like Venusaur, Butterfree, Venomoth, Exeggcute and even Parasect with Spore, but they are generally even worse.


In terms of Viability Rankings, to me it looks something like this (not ordered within the ranks):

S Rank
Tentacruel, Hypno
A Rank
Vaporeon, Omastar, Electabuzz, Raichu, Kangaskhan, Dugtrio, Dragonite, Articuno, Moltres, Kadabra
B Rank
Dewgong, Persian, Dodrio, Victreebel, Haunter, Gyarados
(C Rank
Tangela, Poliwrath, Charizard, Venusaur, Blastiose, Clefable ?)
(D Rank
whatever else you can think of haveing theoretcally a niche, but being shit because Tentacruel exists...)

About C rank, Charizard seems interesting, and frankly, not much (if at all) worse than Moltres in this environment. I gave Moltres the A because of being a Legendary Bird and Charizard the C because of all those prominent Water/Elctric types and Mons' like Dugtrio and Kangaskhan running around with Rock Slides, but it's not even that bad in theory thanks to EQ. Need to test both Moltres and Charizard more, but they just don't feel natural in this tier (ironically in Moltres' case).

 

[Ortheore]

Great stuff guys!

Based on your comments, I'm going to drop Haunter to B and bump Raichu and Dug to B and A respectively. In the case of Raichu I was definitely jumping the gun a little, I guess I tend to over-weigh redundancy- although Buzz is definitely better imo, I can see that being two tiers removed is a bit excessive.

Lusch, the issue I have with putting Waters in A rank is the existence of Tentacruel- it not only uses them as setup fodder, they're also competing with it for a slot (unless you run dual water, which I think is viable). Broadly speaking they all possess the same defensive niche in checking the birds, while their individual differences are kinda secondary imo.

I also question how valuable Vap's strengths are- with all the Flying types roaming the tier, Dug's not that difficult to check, while the only water type it's really beating is Oma.

As for Grass types, I see little reason to run them- if you want something to beat other waters you run tenta imo, while if you want something to beat tenta they're not that great anyway. Flying types being everywhere absolutely screws them over. Also I don't really see any point in running Tangela, especially now that Don's gone.

As for Zard, it could maybe be useful against Molt I guess? Otherwise it still suffers from its defensive typing and its stats being not quite enough

 

[Lusch]

Yea, you're right. I am not convinced of my rankings either, a lot of stuff could move up or down in rankings, but the order in which I placed the Pokemon was alright. Moved some stuff down, it probably rather looks like this

S Rank
Tentacruel, Hypno
A Rank
Electabuzz, Kangaskhan, Dugtrio, Dragonite, Articuno, Kadabra
B Rank
Persian, Dodrio, Vitcreebel, Haunter, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Omastar, Raichu, Moltres
(C Rank
Tangela, Poliwrath, Charizard, Venusaur, Blastiose, Clefable, Dewgong ?)
(D Rank
whatever else you can think of haveing theoretcally a niche, but being shit because Tentacruel exists...)

 

[EB0LA]

Here's how I would rank the 2U tier as of now. Mainly posting this so I can keep track, and edit as I test further.

Current # of viable Pokémon in the tier: 18

S Rank
Tentacruel

A+ Rank
Hypno
A Rank
Articuno, Dragonite, Kangaskan
A- Rank
Dugtrio, Kadabra

B+ Rank
Electabuzz
B Rank
Dodrio, Haunter, Moltres, Omastar, Persian
B- Rank
Raichu, Vaporeon, Victreebel

C+ Rank
Gyarados
C Rank
Poliwrath


Anything that is not on this list above, may have some niche uses, but should be the main choices. The one's listed below, can be some what viable, but are out classed by the ones listed above, and deemed 3U.

Notable mentions:
Blastoise, Charizard, Clefable, Dewgong, Fearow, Golduck, Mr. Mime, Sandslash, Tangela, Venasaur

 

[Kaz]

Thoughts in a terrible english

S Rank
-Tentacruel. Not surprising, he's the most dominating force in the metagame, being a valuable team member in many ways. Games are about dealing around him whenever he can get in (which isn't too hard) and requires a lot of patience for most teams. Exellent pivot, decent sweeper, virtually checking everything slower, he's also quite vertatile: sd, rest and sub being useful in certains match-ups. S rank is fully deserve as he should be on any serious teams, what he offers is too good in just one slot. Need more testing before any banhammer, wrap is still unreliable and Tentacruel is really exposed while being low/forced to rest.


A Rank
-Hypno. To me he's not as great as he was before MoltCuno release. He dosen't blanket specials attackers as well as before bird release, most of powerful specialists potentially 3HKO him. He also have some sort of 4MSS syndrom, while his speed coupled with hypnosis poor accuracy sometimes give him troubles to do that properly while retaining some usefulness for the rest of the game. Despite that he's still the best A to me, his ability to check moderate attackers such as electrics and psychics (and maybe even more with timely drops) should be considered for any team and thunderwave punish everything or so; he quite hard to switch into outside of you own rest hypno. He's not as dominent but still really good.

-Dragonite. Another very valuable team member, one of the few good switch in to EQ backed up with great bulk and wide movepool. Dragonite isn't only the wrap machine he used to be. He's one of the best paralysis spreader in the tier, have some breaking capacities with body slam while AgiliWrap being a constant fear if you don't run specific stuff. A bit hindered with the presence of Tentacruel, Articuno and bulky waters in general while his speed isn't that good, also most teams are prepared to take some wrap. Still a very splashable mon that covers many roles in one slot.

-Kadabra. The second psychic, probably the best Tentacruel check when not paralyzed, however Kadabra can be used in a lots of ways that he often end statused. He's a lot harder to switch into while facing Tentacruel, giving him the edge at this role over both electrics. Twave + recover is never bad despite being really frail. I give him A and eletrics B because he can do much more and hit harder in general. Also a good lead, something electrics don't do well.

-Dugtrio. The best cleaner, Dugtrio is the anti-metagame pokemon as he can quickly be an issue. He 2HKO everything above not named Dragonite, Khangaskhan or Hypno, and the latter one still struggles versus him while a subtoxic set will greatly reduce dragonite usefulness. If that's not enough he naturally checks electrics and haunter while giving most waters troubles when it comes to switch in and Tangela is too passive to be considered a prime answer which leaves you with Gyarados (the meta is quite hostile to him) Dragonite and Vaporeon at decent switchs while physically bulky pokémons such a Kangaskhan are good offensive answers. Did i mention it's the fastest thing viable ? Overall Dugtrio is too frail to be considered a dominating force but he's by far the best at its unique role, so yeah, A.

-Kangaskhan. No safe switching, he can threaten everything, being one of the best breaker in the tier. His physical line is impeccable, allowing him to go against the likes of dugtrio dodrio and persian if needed. However he's not as impacting as Tauros can be in 1U simply because his speed and special aren't that good, still can beat electrics and articuno in a pure 1v1 and can remove anything you need in the lategame. The best normal because he dosen't have true counter like Persian and Dodrio.

-Articuno. Even more one dimensional than Moltres but way more reliable, that's why give him A. He can be answered but for how long ? freeze can comes anytime and wrap being omnipresent allow him to get in quite safely despite not being really helpful in terms of synergy. Agility allow him to not be easily checked by tentacruel. If you can manage his checks he's devastating and hard to revenge kill if you give him a single free turn.


B Rank
-Vaporeon. Borderline A if it wasn't for the S-tier mon but maybe i overrate it. Still Vaporeon is a key member when it comes to take wrap thanks to his massive HP. It can be really hard to take down even by super effective hits, trading meaningful hits vs everything if needed. It also have his own the offensive side, especially if you opt for hydro pump (it 3HKO hypno). Overall it's still a metagame staple to me, shutting down birds dug and more. I think it's better than Omastar because you, most of the time, already run Tentacruel; vap is better vs electric, Dug and Kadabra all of them gives tenta troubles while also being being better vs most things that isn't Dodrio.

-Electrics. At first i thought Buzz would have been way better because of that 105 base speed, but Dugtrio being omnipresent and the combinaison of agili+surf make Raichu a potent threat to the point i consider them equal. They rely on that super effective hit to do heavy damage, otherwise special stat isn't that good to harm most of neutral targets that compose A, even birds can beat them after a speed boost. They're still good because of that fast t-wave but that's about it and the super effective hit on waters. To me Kadabra outclass them and can be harder to break thanks to recover.

-Haunter. Fast sleep + normal immunity are neat tools but he's frail that one or two misses ruin it. Despite the wrap immunity he can't answer tentacruel by is own and may even struggle vs healthy dragonite. He's not as good he used to be in the beginning of the frontiers but he's unique and one of the best sleepers if you can get him in safely. Explosion is a nice emergency button

-Dodrio. Despite being truly countered by rocks, Dodrio can be more dangerous than Kangaskhan due to its better offenses and access to agility. The problem is that he does not contribute defensively speaking, barely coming on dugtrio. Flying type and poor defenses hurt him a lot while speed tying Tentacruel is shaky. A good lead for offensively minded teams.

-Moltres. I won't say it is outclassed by Articuno, but Ice type is overall better and Moltres is really unreliable if you want to exploit his full potential. Need a lot of support to do something meaningful. However if you can set him a good playground and/or if you opponent forgot to consider him, it will cause havoc, unlikeky since most Cuno answers are also good vs Moltres, bar dewgong.

-Gyarados. This one need more love. I feel like this is a lil bit outclassed by Dragonite, who can run the same moveset while still having wrap and speed control under his belt. However ice is as common as electric and gyadaros have a better time fighting opposing waters not named Tentacruel. Defensively it help vs Dugtrio and Kangaskhan in the rank above but thats about it.

-Victreebel. Bad luck magnet, dual powder backed by wrap and stab razor leaf is everything tangela hope to have. Sadly poison typing hinders victreebel a lot, not being able to reliably check dugtrio and the accuracy of key moves might be shaky. Still a good mon that can do a lot if the right circumtences, appreciates Tentacruel and Dragonite as team mates to get in safely on defensive waters.

-Omastar. As said in the vaporeon part, i think its pretty hard to fit Omastar onto a team alongside tentacruel (Eq and Tbolt weakness mainly but also psychic). Well this pokémon is quite mandatory in the metagame being the sturdiest response to most of the threatening powerhouses in the tiers such as birds and normals.

-Persian. Fast sweeper that beat Dugtrio in a pure 1v1, toxic prevents dragonite to set up freely, making for a decent sweeper. Outside of slash, offenses are really average and the bulk dosen't help either. Heavily cripped by paralysis and Haunter is a roadblock, outclassed by Kan and Dodrio as a normal sweeper and by Dugtrio as a cleaner. Could drop for C but i haven't tested it enough to be bold on that.


As for C i haven't tested most of that, if anyone wants to to friendlies feel free to ask, i think thoses have some interesting niches to get that C rank: Clefable, Dewgong, Sandslash, Tangela, Poliwrath. Most of them serves a checks to specifics things while clefable stands out because of of his wide movepool and decent offensive pressure.

 

[marcoasd]

It looks to me that Dugtrio has a bigger than expected problem with Dnite: Dnite is just as hard to stop as I predicted after setting up, and Dugtrio is forced to use Toxic to counter the Agility play (DNite's Blizzard does 80-90%, Surf is a 2HKO; consider that Dnite has other things to do even if it gets Toxic'd).
I think we're sleeping a bit on Dnite (or at least, I am) and Omastar could be a counterpick to it.

I totally overlooked Charizard, it looks like it has some selling points and Vaporeon's usage should be low (on the other hand, Grass-types shouldn't be used in this tier). It stutters a bit against Tentacruel and even more against Buzz, and I think it needs Toxic for Dnite just like Dugtrio does so C looks fair.

All in all there are high ranked pokemon that won't see much play in my prediction: Gyarados is the prime example, followed by Vaporeon/Dewgong, Victreebel and possibly Persian/Dodrio.