RBY 5U Viability Rankings

[Enigami]

Welcome to the 5U "PU" Viability Ranking Thread! In case you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in certain ranks here, based on their impact on the tier as well as their general viability in the tier. This is an excellent help while teambuilding and it serves as a general outline of the tier. Furthermore it is used in our formation of the tier below.

If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it - that's what this thread is for. As long as you are reasonably sensible and courteous this thread should run smoothly.

Pokemon are sorted into ranks based on how well they perform in their roles. They are ordered alphabetically within each ranking to avoid overcomplication.

Tierlist | Discussion Thread

S Rank

These Pokémon are the most effective Pokémon in the metagame. Their offensive and defensive prowess, as well as versatility, and ability to fulfill a variety of important roles lend themselves to this.

Dragonair - Analysis

Drowzee - Analysis

Gastly - Analysis

Seadra - Analysis

A Rank

These Pokémon perform significant roles in the metagame, and perform them very well, however they are not the most dominating forces.

Electrode - Analysis

Ninetales - Analysis

B Rank

These Pokémon are strong choices in the metagame, but perform less important roles or are less consistent than Pokémon in the Rank above. They have larger flaws than Pokémon in above ranks, or face greater competition from similar Pokémon, reducing their usefulness.

Arbok - Analysis

Graveler - Analysis

Parasect

Poliwag - Analysis

Seaking

Vileplume - Analysis

C Rank

These Pokémon are more infrequent sights in the metagame, particularly in top level matches, but are nevertheless viable Pokémon. They are less effective in the metagame than Pokémon in above ranks, but are effective with proper support.

Lickitung - Analysis

Magmar - Analysis

Primeape

Wartortle - Analysis

-------------------- Everything above this line is 5U -------------------- Everything below this line is 6U --------------------

D Rank

These Pokémon are very rare sights in top level matches, and suffer from more crippling flaws. They require a lot of support to be effective, and may have consistency issues.

Flareon

Kabutops

Pidgeot - Analysis

Spoiler: Lower Ranks

E Rank

These Pokemon are barely viable in the tier but require very specific support to make use of. They have flaws too crippling for them to be seen at all often in high level play, but nevertheless are still explorable options. They are generally considered gimmicks.

Beedrill

Butterfree

Hitmonlee

Machamp

Magneton

Marowak

Muk

Ponyta - Analysis

Tentacool

Weepinbell

Weezing

F Rank

These Pokemon have flaws too crippling to ever be serious contenders in the tier, and tend to suffer from being largely but not totally outclassed. They are considered gimmicks.

Dratini

Hitmonchan

Onix

Pikachu

Sandshrew

 

[Ortheore]

Just finished my set vs CrapAtRBY, so time for some thoughts. Rankings seem fine to me, haven't seen/used Tales, King, Wak or Mag so I'm not too sure there.

Flareon is decent, but idk how it compares to other Fire types. I suspect in the end there'll be not much reason to use it over the other fires, but for now C rank seems fine. For me, its Slam was a little underwhelming which is notable given that its ATK is its main niche, though Grav's presence when I used it didn't help matters.

I used Butterfree, not sure how good it'll be. When I used it he led Magmar, which is obviously a terrible matchup for it, but also Wag is a rough matchup, so I'm not sure how well it'll fare as a lead... which is the obvious role for it. It could maybe go against Vileplume?

On that note, I tried Plume as an SDer, and I was thoroughly underwhelmed. On paper it looks good, with a respectable atk but if you're using HB (which I was) it falls really short in terms of power. Haven't tried Slam though.

Dragonair I believe could easily become a metagame staple, and it doesn't have a lot to do with Wrap surprisingly. I ran a moveset of Blizz/Tbolt/Twave/Wrap and honestly that coverage is just amazing (not to mention access to TWave). I'm saying at least B, possibly even A.

Arbok is also pretty good, but it suffers a little from having a shitty defensive typing- there are just very few situations where you're inclined to go to Arbok, as it doesn't have any role defensively. Offensively it can be effective tho. I guess C is fine for it imo

Weezing is pretty good offensively, but it suffers from Poison type syndrome in that it has no defensive use. I guess it's not as bad as Arbok tho, since it's more status resilient and can have a much bigger immediate impact. Still not sure here.

 

[marcoasd]

Poliwag should drop at this point: Pidgeot proved to be viable and Primeape is quickly becoming the fighting type of choice, leaving Poliwag outsped by Pidgeot, Primeape and Magmar.

 

[Peasounay]

Muk can go in C I think. Marcoasd and I tried it and it works fine (or at least better than D ranks). Poliwag to A is fine but we'll have to watch out: in my series against stunner it was very dangerous every single time even though we had a bunch of Magmars (I love that thing) and Drowzees that could pressure/switch-in. A bit unsure about Machamp if Primeape is the premier fighting type choice but I haven't tried any. The rest seems fine for the time being.

 

[Enigami]

Made some ranking changes for now:

Poliwag S > A
Dragonair Unranked > B
Primeape Unranked > B
Muk Unranked > C
Pidgeot Unranked > C
Arbok Unranked > D
Flareon Unranked > D
Butterfree Unranked > E
Parasect F > E

 

[Ortheore]

Soooo after my set vs Enigami I definitely think Dair ought to be A. Dair is an extremely multidimensional threat, with status, great coverage and everyone's favourite strategy, AgiWrap. Big, big threat, potentially S or even suspect worthy, but idk yet. While I'm at it, I think Grav is more B. It has multiple weaknesses which become quite a big deal, and imo paralysis just is too difficult to spread for Grav to be that effective.

I'm unsure of whether Seaking is B, like I get that it's a pseudo Seadra, but Poliwag is also rly good if you wanna stack waters.

Wrap is actually a big threat, I may have underestimated Arbok, idk. Certainly it's better than Wak, which suffers from all of Grav's flaws while being a bit weaker on top of that.

 

[Disaster Area]

Soooo after my set vs Enigami I definitely think Dair ought to be A. Dair is an extremely multidimensional threat, with status, great coverage and everyone's favourite strategy, AgiWrap. Big, big threat, potentially S or even suspect worthy, but idk yet.

Wow

While I'm at it, I think Grav is more B. It has multiple weaknesses which become quite a big deal, and imo paralysis just is too difficult to spread for Grav to be that effective.

Personally I feel like Wak is a lot better than Graveler, like ok its worse vs Pidgeot / Electrode, but it's a better Drowzee and Pikachu switch-in and Blizzard is cool as well as its better MU vs Graveler and also pairing a bit better than graveler alongside pidgeot.

I'm unsure of whether Seaking is B, like I get that it's a pseudo Seadra, but Poliwag is also rly good if you wanna stack waters.

Honestly you can run all 3 and I like having that extra bulk available.

Will say I need to play a lot more but I built 22 teams yesterday so I at least have teams to test.

 

[Peasounay]

Couple of thoughts: Supporting a Dragonair rise, A for the time being and we'll see in the future if it's S worthy or not. Supporting a Graveler drop, meta is hostile to it, electrics aren't played enough for it to have a good use, fires are walled by waters anyway. Machamp should drop to like D imo, I don't see anyone using it but I see hitmonlees and primeapes who seem to outclass it.

We should also keep an eye on the rank of electrics since there's often a vileplume, sometimes a ground in teams

 

[Ortheore]

Ok, so time to dump my thoughts

Hitmonlee is rubbish imo, certainly not worth using over Primeape. Ape has better speed, and overall a better movepool, Tbolt, Rock Slide and Hyper Beam are all intriguing options, whereas Lee only gets a better STAB and BSlam... there's practically nothing else in its movepool. Also Ape has better bulk, but I'm not sure that it's enough to be relevant. Torn between D and E here.

Pidgeot is actually pretty cool. Not sure how I feel about its ranking, I guess C is fine for it since it has terrible defensive utility, but I think it's pretty cool, packs a good amount of power and is generally a capable sweeper.

Finally used Seaking and yeah, it's B-worthy. Decent physical attack makes it a solid option for wearing down opposing waters, which is especially useful when you're facing off against Wag.

I used Gastly, but I don't have an opinion yet, since it didn't really accomplish much in my battle, besides being sleep fodder, which admittedly is something it's not entirely terrible at due to finding waking opportunities vs Plume and Wrappers. On paper it actually does pretty well imo, has good offensive coverage and normal immune plus adequate special bulk. I think I need more testing here though.

Also I stand by my earlier comments on Grav and Dair. In fact, I think Dragonair ought to be S, great coverage, access to status, combined with AgiWrap is a big deal, I may test it a bit more, since I didn't play the AgiWrap optimally, but I still see it as a potential suspect candidate.

 

[Disaster Area]

Pidgeot is actually pretty cool. Not sure how I feel about its ranking, I guess C is fine for it since it has terrible defensive utility, but I think it's pretty cool, packs a good amount of power and is generally a capable sweeper.

It's a great Vileplume switch-in and okay switch-in to stuff like Marowak and most importantly it's one of a handful of Pokémon faster than Poliwag.

Finally used Seaking and yeah, it's B-worthy. Decent physical attack makes it a solid option for wearing down opposing waters, which is especially useful when you're facing off against Wag.

I'd almost be tempted to put it in A it ends up on most of my teams and it works really well.

 

[marcoasd]

Ok, so time to dump my thoughts

Hitmonlee is rubbish imo, certainly not worth using over Primeape. Ape has better speed, and overall a better movepool, Tbolt, Rock Slide and Hyper Beam are all intriguing options, whereas Lee only gets a better STAB and BSlam... there's practically nothing else in its movepool. Also Ape has better bulk, but I'm not sure that it's enough to be relevant. Torn between D and E here.

Pidgeot is actually pretty cool. Not sure how I feel about its ranking, I guess C is fine for it since it has terrible defensive utility, but I think it's pretty cool, packs a good amount of power and is generally a capable sweeper.

Finally used Seaking and yeah, it's B-worthy. Decent physical attack makes it a solid option for wearing down opposing waters, which is especially useful when you're facing off against Wag.

I used Gastly, but I don't have an opinion yet, since it didn't really accomplish much in my battle, besides being sleep fodder, which admittedly is something it's not entirely terrible at due to finding waking opportunities vs Plume and Wrappers. On paper it actually does pretty well imo, has good offensive coverage and normal immune plus adequate special bulk. I think I need more testing here though.

Also I stand by my earlier comments on Grav and Dair. In fact, I think Dragonair ought to be S, great coverage, access to status, combined with AgiWrap is a big deal, I may test it a bit more, since I didn't play the AgiWrap optimally, but I still see it as a potential suspect candidate.

Are you this sure about Dnair? It didn't look S to me, I need to play more with and against it.

 

[Ortheore]

Grav really really isn't good in this meta, little para, loads of things that target its weaknesses, drop to B imo, potentially even C, I don't think it's substantially better than Wak.

What are people's thoughts on Drowzee dropping? It's just not bulky enough imo, leaving it with little defensive niche and I find it's really easy to pass over. Offensively it still pulls its weight, but to me it's more B.

I've used Gastly and it's actually pretty good. It's not quite fast enough (and Seadra 2HKOs it =[ ), but its typing, spc and Tbolt/Psychic mean it can definitely put in work. I think it's worthy of B.

Weezing is alright, it makes a nice Plume response but otherwise doesn't do much and it's not as though there's a lack of Plume responses otherwise. However in my battle with it it just felt so expendable. I'm torn between C and D here. Probably D if I'm being honest.

Just generally I'm finding slow physicals just don't cut it. They really can't afford to switch into anything except I guess Plume, since most of the meta's main players have powerful STAB options available and outspeed, probably the main exception being Dair, which makes up for it with Wrap. So I guess this is my way of saying Champ->C. It just really isn't that relevant.

Also Dair for S

 

[Enigami]

Rankings update:

Dragonair: B > A
Gastly: Unranked > C
Graveler: A > B
Machamp: B > C
Weezing: Unranked > D

Moved Dragonair and Graveler halfway to suggested new ranks and put Gastly in C for now. Moved Machamp down, and added Weezing to D.

 

[marcoasd]

Pidgeot hits hard, especially in case Graveler's usage is dropping - that is happening now I guess. It's better than C.
Machamp is so rare/uneffective that I don't see it being C: in all honesty, Machamp doesn't belong to the tier (D).
Primeape is delusional against Vileplume and Gastly is troublesome too. I see it being in a tough position, I would seriously consider using SToss at this point (but I don't see it being B anymore, at all).

Stuff like Pikachu or Weepinbell should go even lower, not to mention Dratini.

A rank is hard to tell.
I think Drowzee is actually one of the best pokemon: it's the only effective TWaver (we're not seeing TWave Dnair atm) and Psychic is the best offensive tool on predicted Rest.
Nothing can switch in safely and Drowzee is stealing the role to the likes of Machamp and physicals in general.
All in all, paraslams are the main thing that can hinder it (special attacks fail to 2HKO, and Marowak's EQ is 45%ish to 2HKO).
I support Vileplume, Seaking, Dragonair and Drowzee to A; Poliwag looks arguable to me, but I think that's because I'm dumb and I've been using Blizzard>Psychic so far - that is an awful choice. Still, Hypnosis' accuracy and its bulk suck.

 

[Disaster Area]

I'm not sure how much I agree on Pikachu / Primeape moving too far down, at the least they should be in C rank, they're good offensively but frail.

I've used twave dragonair a bit but I feel like agiwrap is so potent that in some ways it's a bit of a waste... but definitely worth testing further.

I'm not sure I'd go far as to say what either side is saying on Drowzee; the long and the short of it is that it's not too easy to get in but it's even harder to switch in to. B or A rank seems appropriate but i'm not really sure.

In spite of having some insane record in new frontiers I barely know the tier still tbh u_u

 

[Ortheore]

Hmm I'm kinda wondering if maybe we ought to shift (almost) everything up?

I've said my bit on Dragonair and how I think it's S rank, but also Vileplume could be S rank because I feel it's indispensable- its status options, decent all-around bulk, I just find it tough to not include it in my teams. Actually, screw it, here are my personal viability rankings

Spoiler: prepare to be amazed

S
Seadra
Vileplume (backbone of pretty much all my teams)
Dragonair (may be borked)

A
Seaking (Shitty Seadra, but that's not a bad thing. Similar thing has happened the past two tiers lol)
Magmar (Great lead, can be effective in a few different ways)
Poliwag (Meta has adapted to it, but it's still a monster if given an opening)

B
Drowzee (It's a decent threat, but not one I worry about too much)
Ninetales (Magmar's better, which is a surprise, but Ninetales can work once Waters are out the way)
Primeape (Good mon, Vileplume is just too big a nuisance)
Gastly (It's good, use it)
Pidgeot (I haven't thought about Pidgeot too much, but when I used it it was a beast)

C
Machamp (Like Primeape, except slow)
Graveler (See below)
Marowak (I have no idea where to put the Grounds. They're definitely relevant threats, but they're still shit imo, and when I use them I feel they drag the team down... so idk, could maybe be B, just because I consider them relevant)
Muk (C seems right to me)
Pikachu (Really flawed, but it's more than capable of doing its thing)

D
Electrode (Between Plume and Ground types, I'll pass)
Arbok (Probably the best in D rank)
Dratini (Silly gimmick, but I think it can work)
Weezing (Realistically it's not that much worse than Muk, but it is still worse, so D it goes)
Flareon (Thoroughly mediocre)
Weepinbell (???)

E
Magneton (Electrode is bad, this is worse)
Hitmonlee (Terrible)
Parasect (Yeah it's bad. Not sure it's E bad, but I'm not going to argue)
Butterfree (rip)
Sandshrew (idk)

 

[Enigami]

Ortheore's rankings I feel are more accurate than the current rankings, so I've integrated his changes.

Also, dropped Sandshrew to F. While Swords Dance, Rock Slide+Earthquake and a decent Attack stat can make it threatening, it needs too much support to make it worth using over Marowak. A lack of Electrode and Magneton in the tier also makes it hard to find setup opportunities.

 

[Disaster Area]

I kinda feel like Wak is being a little underrated; it's reasonably nice with some para support, it does good damage, its main issue is that it can't take special hits too well. Drowzee doesn't straight up 2HKO without a crit or specfall though, and is outsped, so it acts as a switch-in to that, and its EQ is pretty damn strong. It has good defense so its a nice check to like Primeape and Pidgeot. It is dnair bait though, with only Body Slam to dissuade it.

I still don't really get the meta in the slightest tho

(please ignore my ridiculous new frontiers record)

 

[Ortheore]

Lickitung to E rank, its speed is just too great an impediment, and it doesn't have the bulk to back it up

 

[DDX2]

Hi,

I have a few questions regarding the tiers here:

1. Why isn't Weezing also at least C like Muk?
Weezing has better defensive stats, and is much better offensively with special attacks than Muk. The main difference I see is that Muk knows Body Slam and Mega Drain. Do either of those attacks make it better overall?

2. Why isn't Magneton and/or Flareon decisvely here? They both have insanely high Special.
I know Magneton is slower and doesn't have Explosion like Electrode, but that seems to be all Electrode has for it consider its defensive and offensive stats are much worse than Magneton.

Nearly the same thing with Flareon, both of them seem to be similar to me in the same way you placed Moltres and Articuno in 2U. Poor movesets, but fairly durable with extremely powerful STAB attacks.

3. While not as relevant, wouldn't Rhyhorn be better than Sandshrew overall?