GSC OU This is the best gsc team I've used.

As of now credit goes to Borat for this team. Though take that with a grain of salt because if this isn't his creation it would make it the third or fourth team he has put a claim on that wasn't actually his.

Raikou: reflect/roar/thunderbolt/rest

Snorlax: belly drum/ double edge/ curse / rest

Zapdos: thunder/ rest / hidden power ice / sleep talk

Umbreon: toxic / rest / charm / pursuit

Cloyster: toxic, spikes, rapid spin, surf

Skarmory: drill peck, curse, whirl wind, rest

The move sets aren't set in stone and can be changed. I change them pretty often. Also, zapdos can be replaced with suicune though zapdos covers a little more I think. This team was the nail in the coffin for aggressive team roostur and also why I don't play as much anymore because unfortunately i'm not a patient person. I was already leaning toward the conclusion that stall teams were the optimal play style but this sealed the deal. I feel like in the current meta that a lot of players are getting away with murder with certain aggressive teams because there aren't as many stall players as there use to be back in the day. If there were I think people would drop aggressive teams. I feel like when I focus and don't make any mistakes (and i don't mean calling 50/50s right the whole game, i don't consider guessing wrong a mistake) i can't lose with this team. Against aggressive teams anyway. Against aggressive teams this is really a one player game and it is just on you not to mess up. But if you were to fight another stall team and you both played optimally (which will almost never happen due to the playing field of gen 2 being pretty shallow due to it being an old gen and most people not considering pokemon a real competitive game because of the luck factors) then you would pp stall and the better player would be whoever could do their long term math better.
What I really like about this team is the coverage. In pokemon team building you are always trying to plug holes, but everytime you plug a hole another one pops up. Team building is just an endless cycle of hole plugging and compromise. This team covers everything amazingly though. There is nothing it can't take care of. Just because this is the best team I have used doesn't mean it is the best team. I didn't say it was the best team period. But I do believe that the basic stall structure is the best.
The only other player I've really seen use this team is Conflict. He uses a mean look umbreon instead of the standard though. I personally don't think it is optimal. It is not bad like most people think. Mostly mean look is used by scrubs who just spam it and get no where because they just keep mean looking skarmory. But if you are a pro then you will abuse your opponents predictability with a switch of your own. Abusing the threat of mean look is the idea. It is a cool choice, but I think the standard is at least slightly more effective and will ultimately lead to more damage done to your opponent. At least that is how it has played out in my experience.
I didn't really start this thread with a well thought out point . I just thought there would be at least 1 obscure person on the internet who cares what I think about how Gen 2 should be played optimally and what I think is a good team to use to play competitively. Borat showed people how to play aggressive and I think people for the most part really enjoy the faster pace gameplay because we all have lives (again, which is why I don't play as much which might mean that stall is ultimately not healthy for the growth of the game) but I really don't have many doubts any more when it comes to aggressive vs stall. Aggressive teams don't have a sure fire way to break stall (that right there should be the end of the stall vs aggressive arguement) and have to take a lot of risks, whereas stall teams get to play much safer, and most of the time they only need to take down one poke to win. After that you simply have to react to win. If luck wasn't part of this game, winning with stall would be brain dead easy. But having to consider crits and what not when making a calculated move makes things a bit harder.


Anyway. If you want to be a fag and waste your opponents precious time and your own, or win a tournament, this is a good team to do it with.

 

That formatting,,,

 

Hey, overall it looks quite solid, although I could potentially see Machamp being problematic, since your only real checks are Zap and Skarm, which is a bit shaky, although they're definitely fine under most circumstances

I'm a little curious about that Raikou set tho, like it's hard to imagine the lack of Rest being easy to work with

 

After we played, I tried a variant of this team (the rest cloyster one & raikou also had rest) and got into 2 long games. One hit turn 250 something and the other was in the high 300's.

Aggravating to play against, but just as aggravating to play with. I quickly abandoned this after learning that I didn't like double electric (personally, not as in the idea being bad), so I ended up calling Raikou "good electric" and that bird thing "bad electric" out of frustration.

 

Sorry guys. I changed the raikou set. It was suppose to have rest on it. But like I said, none of the sets are set in stone. Change them. The sets I posted aren't necessarily the optimal sets. They are just the ones I was using when I last played this team. As of now I am unsure of what the optimal sets should be. I used this team to win mt 20. My strategy was to play a slow game first to wear my opponent down and to also get a feel for how he likes to play, then my second game I was going to use a fast aggressive team to change up the pace and run them over. I didn't have any game 3 plans so it is really fortunate that they were all 2-0s . Tbh though I consider my strategy to be cutting corners. I could have just went the whole tournament with just this solo team. It was the only one I was practicing and I had a note book of dos and don'ts with the team. I really was trying to formulate everything. I don't think anyone was going as try hard as me so I don't think it mattered if I was predictable with what team I used.

Mr Golem, i think rest on cloyster might be better than toxic cloyster, but I really miss being able to hit opposing cloysters with toxic when I use rest. I can't make my mind up about which one I like better. Probably rest cloyster. I'm also not 100% certain that my umbreon set is better than the mean look one. It has performed better for me but I'm still not completely sure. I think this team is fine against opposing spike teams. You just need a lot of patience. A team like the one you use (misdreavous cloyster combo) will start off with the advantage and the tempo. But I've found that tempo doesn't matter in stall vs stall. A lot of the time you don't want the tempo. I've noticed fighting movie about cancer that some times he'll gain tempo and start roaring my team to weaken them with spikes. But all my pokes are bulky and can rest off the damage so what happens a lot of the time is that he just wastes all his roars for nothing which would give you the advantage in the pp war. That is just an example of how you don't really need tempo. I think borat was right when he said the goal with stall really is to just not lose. You don't necessarily want to beat your opponent, you want to waste his resources. You're kind of cheating the game.

Ortheore, Zapdos and Skarmory handle machamp just fine. Especially with reflect up. They definitely win that match up

Aerial Rebel, you are totally right. I think this team can beat any body, including yourself. This team beat me countless times after I won mt 20. My goal is to wear my opponent down but what happens a lot of the time is that I just wear myself down, then I lose focus, and when I lose focus I make misplays. And yeah, if I'm only going to use one electric I always use raikou. Raikou is my favorite poke in the game actually. People say lax is the best but I think Raikou is the most consistent poke in the game. The quality of lax's performance from game to game can vary, but I feel like Raikou's performance from game to game is always spot on. I love that poke.

 

Yeah, I'll move it.

 

dont like the team much at all. maybe it was good at a different point in the meta, idk. no way to get around a rest missy. doesn't really wall more offensive teams either without anything to resist vap surfs, skarm being your only explosion resist, etc. machamp looks like it could molest things if you're not careful about your rest turns and status. overall the team just looks like it's waiting to be crit.

doesnt feel like the team really does anything, and doesnt seem like the team has great means of preventing the opponent from doing things. seems like it tries to do both and ends up doing neither.

the team probably gets better results in random ladder matches where people dont run vaporeon and tend to boom predictably

 

Looks pretty solid defensively; definitely functional as a "switch in; switch out" type staller I can't really see any holes in it. Sunny Doom/ Moltres could hurt you as you have no fire resistance, Rhydon/Golem get some free hits in, with only really having to worry about sucking a pursuit. Destroyer teams are not your problem; other stall teams are. 5 of the 6 pokes are only carrying mono type attacks and theres no xplosions so you cant really do much to mix up the match tempo other than searching for an opening to drum or just hoping for the opponent to make a mistake? What do you do against Bobs Toxic lax or a last poke curselax? I mean you could charm it I guess until the opponent gets bored and quits but i'm not seeing too many ways of actually killing a Snorlax? All the offense lies with lax alone here, if it sucks a boom you're gonna struggle to gain much damage. Dont get me wrong it looks like an incredibly tough team to beat, but if I were playing against it I would be aiming to blow up Raikou & Umbreon; they are the defensive backbone & once they're gone you've lost pretty much the only thing this team does; defend.

 

a) I've never seen one of those.
b) No, it can't directly kill it. However, a sleeping Missy has difficulty blocking Cloy's Spin, and it's going to run out of Mean Looks eventually. That said, a Lax set that isn't totally neutered by Gengar/Missy would be nice.

Eh. There's two Electrics for Vap, and it's not like there are many Water resists that actually beat Vap in the first place (I mean, he does technically have Cloy, not that it helps). Umbreon can pretend to be an Explosion resist in a pinch with Charm, and if you pick your looks well Explosion doesn't always do the trick.

 

no i mean:
rest/thunder/toxic/thief
it has a better chance of actually doing something compared to most missy that just sit and try to cray or double protect. tbh I kind of like it better than standard perish trapping. lax will never get around that with this team tbh.

umbreon doesnt resist explosion, it prevents them from clicking it. if you have something threatened by an explosion, skarm is your only switch in unless you're sacking. I guess he's got reflect, but idk.

Egg, Roarcune, random explosion, LS starmie, etc are all good against vap. I mean I really wouldn't consider raikou to be that much of a check if its not stalk, unboosted surf can put it in a rest loop if it gets low enough and vap is healthy enough to take a tbolt. Zapdos will almost always be forced to click rest eventually by taking the attacks of the rest of the team, in which case hitting thunder out of stalk is annoying, and I think vaporeon has a better shot at it then. This is assuming no explosions hit either electric too. I mean it's not like vap just comes in and wins, but it has very doable win conds to sweeping.

 

Misdreavus carrying rest is a thing now. It is rampant on the ladder after it made its appearance in SPL.

 

It's always been a thing. I know I've been seeing it for at least 3 years. I've had m dragon use it on me a few times.

 

Without Mean Look/Perish Song Missy can be Pursuited by Umbreon. It's not exactly a cakewalk for Umby, but I wouldn't say the team has "no way around it".

That Lax set is bad on this team, though, I absolutely agree. Mixed or Toxic Lax is probably the best IMO since there's no Beller for DrumLax.

Egg vs. Vap is a rather iffy matchup for both in all honesty. Roar Cune and LS Starmie do work against the usual variants (Roar gets past both) but Starmie is the poster-child for "hard to fit on a team".

 

Umbreon Pursuit vs. Misdreavus: 73-86 (22.6 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
I'd never try perish trapping an umbreon. They can just trap back if they're mean look and choose what they want to trade with.

I wouldn't necessarily say you need a beller for drumlax. I think the lack of being able to touch that missy set hurts a lot.

Egg is a fine matchup. Ice Beam isn't common and if it's carrying that then Lax checks it much more easily. Cloyster blowing up is also an option.

Roar won't get past suicune unless it's some weird Roar Ice Beam/Mirror Coat set. Suicune can just toxic and wait to switch raikou in, or roar on the forced rest. I don't think roar gets past light screen starmie either. It only really has a chance if it roars the turn light screen wears off and manages to crit you upon switching in.

Ice Beam and Roar are usable, but nobody ever uses them and they've rarely worked from the few cases I've seen; maybe Ice Beam has worked out a few times. I really wouldn't pay them much attention.

 

Giga Drain is only 40% to 3HKO, and it's got 8 PP. Leech Seed is better, but it's not exactly standard. Sleep Talk can prevent 3HKOs from going through. Explosion draws unless Acid Armour. Like I said, iffy for both.

Raikouing the Rest could work. Roaring the Rest doesn't work, because Vap can Rest after Roaring Suicune out and then use Roar while asleep to block Suicune's.

That's what I was referring to, yes. Surf has the PP to repeat the manoeuvre until you get the crit. Hydro Pump does enough damage that you don't even need a crit (although you do need two consecutive hits, and Hydro Pump kinda sucks without Sleep Talk).

 

You can still Psychic or if worse comes to worse and it gets really good sleep talk rolls and you get bad damage rolls, then Explode. If it's Acid Armor then just spam Psychic.

Not if the toxic damage would kill vaporeon, or if the toxic damage will bring it so low that anything outspeeds and KOs it. Vaporeon is pretty slow. You don't need to bring kou in on the rest, it 2HKOs with whatever you pick and roar vaporeon can't run resttalk so there's no risk.

Light Screen Starmie still beats roar vaporeon without a fair amount of luck. And in a last mon situation you can sack mons to prevent Roar. Regardless, Light Screen still beats standard vaporeon sets with or without luck and roar vaporeon is still not proven nor common enough to think about in teambuilding to begin with.

 

Yeah. That is the point. The goal isn't to have a fun battle with the opponent, it is to make both of you miserable and win. Defense is better than offense in this game. By what degree it is better is debatable but I think defense is definitely better. I don't care that I don't have any super aggressive pokes. Aggressive pokes on a defensive team usually doesn't work. I mean the classic wak, miltank, bd lax team is an example of a defensive team with an offensive poke on it but I really think that team is outdated and not optimal. Suicune might be better than zapdos on this team. I used suicune in place of zapdos a lot and liked it. That takes care of bob lax easily. And yeah after killing raikou and umbreon the team would definitely be done. Just killing one of those pokes would probably mean death for the team if you play right. But that is pokemon. The goal is to not let your opponent do that.

 

Haha yeah I always feel my stomach drop when I see this layout team; there was a guy on pokemon online who used a very similair team only with Blissey instead of Zapdos, 2 of the 6 were just screeners with no attacks at all and the other 4 were mono attack lol. I don't think I ever saw that team kill anything yet on the flip side I don't think I ever saw it lose either! It's things like that make me say sleep trap & OHKO should be unbanned; because its just too inviting to make 6 Rest screeners for the effect of doing nothing but not dying, and that would work under the current structure in GSC. In fairness this team does look a far cry from that; everything is capable of killing something it does look like it has some good offensive pace & capabilities. Might give it a try at some point. How do you like that lax set? I've been meaning to give it a go for a while, never really found somewhere to fit it properly yet.