GSC Ubers The Titans of GSC [Done]

Throughout the history of competitive Pokemon, the strongest Pokemon in the game have been banned from standard play, with older generations in particular bearing a clear distinction between the Uber Pokemon and everything else. GSC is no exception to this rule, but like most of its older counterparts, it remains largely unexplored. For those willing to dive in, an enjoyable and surprisingly balanced tier awaits. So what is there to make of the Pokemon that define GSC 1P? And why might we need to keep these Pokemon out of standard play? Let's find out!

Ho-Oh

Though Ho-Oh is a force to be reckoned with these days in ORAS, its debut was inauspicious to say the least. It's most commonly seen running a Curse set, with Recover and two attacks, which usually consist of Hidden Power Flying and Sacred Fire. Such a set runs into serious trouble on offense—Hidden Power Flying is just too weak to scare much, and although Sacred Fire's burn rate might seem appealing, in practice, it's very underwhelming. Coming off Ho-Oh's weaker Special Attack, it deals little damage to any of Ho-Oh's common switch-ins, while burns are easy to heal thanks to Rest and Celebi's Heal Bell and Sacred Fire's measly 8PP. These flaws allow common GSC staples such as Snorlax, Raikou, and Zapdos to come in easily and immediately go on the offensive.

Given these flaws, it should come as no surprise that Ho-Oh's name crops up when changes to the standard GSC ruleset are discussed. What would its impact be? Potential issues arise when you consider that the majority of Ho-Oh's flaws arise on offensive teams, not defensive. When push comes to shove, it can be very difficult to take Ho-Oh down thanks to its formidable bulk and access to Recover. Its most obvious weakness to Rock is difficult to exploit due to the threat of a potential burn. Electric-types make excellent responses, Snorlax can potentially boost in Ho-Oh's face while Resting off any burns, and Vaporeon can also boost to threaten Ho-Oh. These are all solid responses, but nonetheless only represent a handful of Pokemon, so it's unclear whether or not a tier with Ho-Oh could be considered balanced.

But I've only discussed one set. Surely there are others available? Indeed there are, but given Ho-Oh's lack of popularity, it's not a Pokemon that has been tested thoroughly. Curse sets have other options available, most notably Earthquake and Whirlwind, which allow Ho-Oh to target Raikou and utilise Spikes, respectively. A simple Toxic + phazing move set with Flamethrower is also possible, aiming to accrue passive damage via Spikes and Toxic. These are all options that haven't been explored thoroughly, so it's hard to say how effective they truly are.

Celebi

Though it would later go on to become a staple of standard play, in GSC, Celebi was banned from standard play thanks mostly to its excellent defensive potential and access to the invaluable Heal Bell. Its defensive potential arises from its excellent stats and access to recovery, as it can easily tank unboosted neutral attacks and even many super effective ones if need be. Furthermore, its typing enables it to switch into Electric-, Ground-, and Water-types with ease, with the former two being relatively important thanks to the likes of Zapdos, Raikou, and Steelix. Heal Bell is Celebi's other main draw, and it truly is invaluable, having an enormous effect on how the rest of your team plays by clearing status that would otherwise interfere with your plans.

Despite this, Celebi is sometimes considered when discussing Pokemon being unbanned from standard play. As with Ho-Oh, this is in large part due to Celebi's lacklustre offensive capabilities. After Recover and Heal Bell, it most commonly uses Leech Seed and an attack, usually either Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass. These attacking options are weak and give very poor coverage, meaning that countless Pokemon are mostly unfazed. Lastly, many Pokemon are capable of luring Celebi and surprising it with Hidden Power Bug. However, as with Ho-Oh, it's unclear as to whether or not these flaws are enough to make it balanced, simply because not being afraid of Celebi isn't the same as actually beating it, as many would-be checks have a tough time damaging Celebi in return, while many of the Pokemon that seriously damage it are relatively niche. This issue is further compounded by the fact that Leech Seed is a major interference for any setup sweeper.

What other options does Celebi have up its sleeve? Surprisingly, only a few. It has access to other attacking options, such as Psychic, Hidden Power Fire, and Hidden Power Bug, with the former being an improvement offensively at the cost of doing nothing to Dark-types and still not having great coverage, while the Hidden Powers are used to nail Steel-types and opposing Celebi, respectively. Otherwise, there are few things of interest, with Perish Song being possibly the most notable.

Lugia

Throughout the years, Lugia has earned a reputation as one of the most formidable walls in existence, and it should come as no surprise that it plays out much the same way in GSC. It's most commonly seen running a Curse set with Recover, a STAB attack (usually Aeroblast), and some other move, usually Whirlwind, although it can also choose from a host of other coverage options, which include Earthquake, Ice Beam, and Thunder, with all three of those attacks hitting certain targets super effectively. Its defining trait is its awesome bulk, which enables it to function as a check to almost any Pokemon in the game. In fact, the only way to 2HKO Lugia with an unboosted attack is with a STAB Thunder, as all other common attacks fall short, even some super effective STAB attacks such as Tyranitar's Crunch.

How exactly do you stop Lugia? It's a difficult task no doubt, but like Ho-Oh, it tends to struggle offensively—its STAB move is either Aeroblast or Hidden Power Flying, which means it suffers from either a lack of PP or a lack of power. This means that most Pokemon with a Flying resistance are able to wall it, with special mention going to Electric-types that pose a significant threat in return. Status of any kind helps in breaking down Lugia by impairing its ability to Recover off damage or turning various 3HKOs into 2HKOs. The flipside is that any potential check has to be wary of Lugia's coverage options, while boosting and phazing Lugia are often poor options thanks to its access to Curse + Whirlwind, a combination that becomes deadly with Spikes support. All in all, Lugia embodies the concept of a wall, and it should come as no surprise that it's among the best Pokemon in GSC.

Mewtwo

All of the Pokemon I've discussed this far have been similar in that they're defensive behemoths with limited offenses. I can assure you that that trend does not hold true for Mewtwo. Possessing monstrous offensive stats and the movepool to back it up, as soon as Mewtwo enters play, everything is in danger. Its most obvious strength is its special attacking capabilities, as its base 154 Special Attack and almost limitless special coverage are enough to send almost everything running in fear, and that's just the beginning. If you thought you could simply send in a special sponge such as Snorlax to take it on, you might want to reconsider, as Mewtwo's physical attacking capabilities are not to be overlooked either, as it frequently runs Fighting-type coverage to nail unfortunate Snorlax and the stray Tyranitar. It also happens to learn Self-Destruct for more extreme damage, and it can also make good use of Curse if so desired. Lastly, should you decide you want your Mewtwo to stick around over the course of a match, its bulk is not to be overlooked, especially since it's complemented by Recover.

So what are its flaws? How do you beat it? Perhaps Mewtwo's only drawbacks are a lack of a good boosting move outside Curse and a lack of a clear defensive niche, which in practice limit the impact it has on a game by a significant amount. It also can't run all of its coverage moves simultaneously. But when does it come to actually beating Mewtwo? Well, your options are scarce—Raikou and Zapdos aren't weak to any of Mewtwo's attacks and have good bulk, the same can be said for Mew or Mewtwo. Snorlax is a great choice to take on Mewtwo if it can avoid Mewtwo's unreliable Fighting-type coverage. Lugia can phaze it in a pinch, but it loathes Thunder, while Tyranitar is effective against Mewtwo that lack Fighting-type coverage. Status is also invaluable.

Mew

My, how the times change. These days in ORAS, Mew fails to stand out from the crowd, which makes it crazy to think that in GSC you could plausibly argue that it was the best Pokemon in existence, an assertion that seems insane to almost anyone who's familiar with the Pokemon games. It may lack the great stat lines of Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, and Lugia, but it makes up for that with its movepool, in particular its access to Swords Dance. This boosts its Attack to gargantuan levels, at which point it can start firing powerful attacks using whatever neutral coverage combination tickles your fancy—Shadow Ball or Submission? Go for it. Rock Slide or Earthquake? Those work too. With impeccable neutral coverage coming from just two moveslots, that leaves one free for another move to augment Mew's power. The best options are Soft-Boiled, to capitalise on its solid bulk, or Explosion to destroy just about anything after a boost.

Much like Mewtwo, on paper, Mew is unstoppable, but it tends to prove manageable in practice. This is thanks to its lack of a distinct defensive niche and dependency on Swords Dance, which limits its ability to leave an impact. Another defining flaw is its lack of physical STAB moves, which allows physically bulky Pokemon that aren't hit super effectively by its other moves to do a decent job in checking it. Skarmory stands out here, as it's effective against all conventional Mew sets and can phaze it. Phazers are actually a good means of keeping Mew in check. Strong neutral attacks such as STAB Thunder can be effective in bringing it down, as well as Explosion. Overall, Mew is a fiendishly potent sweeper and wallbreaker.

Conclusion

It's fair to say that GSC Ubers is an exceptionally interesting tier, one that defies expectations. Overall, it has a balanced environment, one with a good mix of defensive juggernauts and offensive monsters, with a decent amount of OU's staples that can hold their own against the Ubers that inhabit the tier as well. In my opinion, it's a highly enjoyable tier, and I encourage you to give it a try!

 

Changed the tag to GSC Ubers. Feel free to change it to GSC OU if that's correct, though.

 

Hai, Ortheore
if you can get this done in a week or two that'll be great since we're nearly moving to October and it nearly has been a month, we're not strict on deadlines but if you can finish it it'll be great!

 

Done, idk who wants to comment on it so I'll just tag all of QC

Lutra Sobi Sans Disaster Area

 

True that I'm in the editor team but I'm not really good at some respective metagames, I'm not really good at GSC so I can't give any advice or give you a Edit check, sorry about that I only main in ORAS, BW and Ingame.

Although the tone is nice and the structure is well done, idk if Sobi has experience with GSC as well but Lutra and Disaster Area should be able to give you a check since they're both good at Old Gens. Although I had fun reading this and the tone and style of writing is good.

 

You don't need to list who helped edit it at the top of the thread

I think it looks good but I'll go over it in greater detail in a bit. Put a line between the Pokemon's name+sprites and the paragraphs beneath

 

I think it would be best if we were to give credit to people who helped edit/contribute to the article it would be more polite and recognizing that way

EDIT: Also once you think you're satisfied with the article Editors can give 1/2 or 2/2 once someone else has already stamped

 

We're not QC and we shouldn't be. This article is largely good and this is basically like, is there anything else we have to say about it, before it's finished / looking for any inaccuracies. But we trust the writer enough to know when it's done in almost all cases. We're just another pair of eyes.

 

Ortheore only real comment on the content is noting that Mew isn't a viable mon in ORAS 1U and we basically don't have any semblance of lower tiers rn. Not sure if I'd change what's written about it w.r.t. oras but just a note in case you weren't familiar.

Nothing about Mewtwo being common as a lead, and it felt pretty round-about in getting to what each pokemon usually does in gsc ubers. Like it just feels like the information is there but spread out over several lines with additional commentary in between and around it. Just the way ideas are presented doesn't feel like it has enough logic to them. Do others agree or is this just me?

 

Well I think it's just the tone of the article but I think there is sufficient information and reasoning but you can add on to it, then I'll count this as two Edit stamps: This is good for Grammar

 

yeah there's no need to put so much emphasis on the edit stage. if someone wants to say something, that's great but it's unnecessary to credit them and stuff

 

Lutra I implemented most of your edits.

DA, I was in two minds about that Mew mention as well, it just seemed an interesting comparison to make. I went ahead and changed it anyway. Also in terms of me not getting to the point, I feel like that's more a product of me trying to take a relatively casual approach in profiling the ubers. Like it's not an analysis where the objective is to really teach someone, but instead to just do a quick profile of each pokemon for people that are curious. I guess it's skimming the surface rather than diving in. Having said that, that doesn't necessarily dismisse your criticism, it could still be an issue idk.

 

fantastic read, very informative~

Spoiler: check, implemented this by the way

Written by Ortheore
Grammar by
Art by



Throughout the history of competitive Pokemon, the strongest Pokemon in the game have been banned from standard play, with older generations in particular bearing a clear distinction between the Uber Pokemon and everything else. GSC is no exception to this rule, but like most of its older counterparts, it remains largely unexplored. For those willing to dive in, an enjoyable and surprisingly balanced tier awaits. So what is there to make of the Pokemon that define GSC 1P? And why might we need to keep these Pokemon out of standard play? Let's find out!

Ho-Oh

Though Ho-Oh is a force to be reckoned with these days in ORAS, its debut was inauspicious to say the least. It's most commonly seen running a Curse set, with Recover and two attacks, which usually consist of Hidden Power Flying and Sacred Fire. Such a set runs into serious trouble on offense—Hidden Power Flying is just too weak to scare much, and although Sacred Fire's burn rate might seem appealing, in practice, it's very underwhelming. Coming off Ho-Oh's weaker Special Attack, it deals little damage to any of Ho-Oh's common switch-ins, while burns are easy to heal thanks to Rest and Celebi's Heal Bell and Sacred Fire's measly 8PP. These flaws allow common GSC staples such as Snorlax, Raikou, and Zapdos to come in easily and immediately go on the offensive.

Given these flaws, it should come as no surprise that Ho-Oh's name crops up when changes to the standard GSC ruleset are discussed. What would its impact be? Potential issues arise when you consider that the majority of Ho-Oh's flaws arise on offensive teams, not defensive. When push comes to shove, it can be very difficult to take Ho-Oh down thanks to its formidable bulk and access to Recover. Its most obvious weakness to Rock is difficult to exploit due to the threat of a potential burn. Electric-types make excellent responses, Snorlax can potentially boost in Ho-Oh's face while Resting off any burns, and Vaporeon can also boost to threaten Ho-Oh. These are all solid responses, but nonetheless only represent a handful of Pokemon, so it's unclear whether or not a tier with Ho-Oh could be considered balanced.

But I've only discussed one set. Surely there are others available? Indeed there are, but given Ho-Oh's lack of popularity, it's not a Pokemon that has been tested thoroughly. Curse sets have other options available, most notably Earthquake and Whirlwind, which allow Ho-Oh to target Raikou and utilise Spikes, respectively. A simple Toxic + phazing move set with Flamethrower is also possible, aiming to accrue passive damage via Spikes and Toxic. These are all options that haven't been explored thoroughly, so it's hard to say how effective they truly are.

Celebi

Though it would later go on to become a staple of standard play, in GSC, Celebi was banned from standard play thanks mostly to its excellent defensive potential and access to the invaluable Heal Bell. Its defensive potential arises from its excellent stats and access to recovery, as it can easily tank unboosted neutral attacks and even many super effective ones if need be. Furthermore, its typing enables it to switch into Electric-, Ground-, and Water-types with ease, with the former two being relatively important thanks to the likes of Zapdos, Raikou, and Steelix. Heal Bell is Celebi's other main draw, and it truly is invaluable, having an enormous effect on how the rest of your team plays by clearing status that would otherwise interfere with your plans.

Despite this, Celebi is sometimes considered when discussing Pokemon being unbanned from standard play. As with Ho-Oh, this is in large part due to Celebi's lacklustre offensive capabilities. After Recover and Heal Bell, it most commonly uses Leech Seed and an attack, usually either Giga Drain or Hidden Power Grass. These attacking options are weak and give very poor coverage, meaning that countless Pokemon are mostly unfazed. Lastly, many Pokemon are capable of luring Celebi and surprising it with Hidden Power Bug. However, as with Ho-Oh, it's unclear as to whether or not these flaws are enough to make it balanced, simply because not being afraid of Celebi isn't the same as actually beating it, as many would-be checks have a tough time damaging Celebi in return, while many of the Pokemon that seriously damage it are relatively niche. This issue is further compounded by the fact that Leech Seed is a major interference for any setup sweeper.

What other options does Celebi have up its sleeve? Surprisingly, only a few. It has access to other attacking options, such as Psychic, Hidden Power Fire, and Hidden Power Bug, with the former being an improvement offensively at the cost of doing nothing to Dark-types and still not having great coverage, while the Hidden Powers are used to nail Steel-types and opposing Celebi, respectively. Otherwise, there are few things of interest, with Perish Song being possibly the most notable.

Lugia

Throughout the years, Lugia has earned a reputation as one of the most formidable walls in existence, and it should come as no surprise that it plays out much the same way in GSC. It's most commonly seen running a Curse set with Recover, a STAB attack (usually Aeroblast), and some other move, usually Whirlwind, although it can also choose from a host of other coverage options, which include Earthquake, Ice Beam, and Thunder, with all three of those attacks hitting certain targets super effectively. Its defining trait is its awesome bulk, which enables it to function as a check to almost any Pokemon in the game. In fact, the only way to 2HKO Lugia with an unboosted attack is with a STAB Thunder, as all other common attacks fall short, even some super effective STAB attacks such as Tyranitar's Crunch.

How exactly do you stop Lugia? It's a difficult task no doubt, but like Ho-Oh, it tends to struggle offensively—its STAB move is either Aeroblast or Hidden Power Flying, which means it suffers from either a lack of PP or a lack of power. This means that most Pokemon with a Flying resistance are able to wall it, with special mention going to Electric-types that pose a significant threat in return. Status of any kind helps in breaking down Lugia by impairing its ability to Recover off damage or turning various 3HKOs into 2HKOs. The flipside is that any potential check has to be wary of Lugia's coverage options, while boosting and phazing Lugia are often poor options thanks to its access to Curse + Whirlwind, a combination that becomes deadly with Spikes support. All in all, Lugia embodies the concept of a wall, and it should come as no surprise that it's among the best Pokemon in GSC.

Mewtwo

All of the Pokemon I've discussed this far have been similar in that they're defensive behemoths with limited offenses. I can assure you that that trend does not hold true for Mewtwo. Possessing monstrous offensive stats and the movepool to back it up, as soon as Mewtwo enters play, everything is in danger. Its most obvious strength is its special attacking capabilities, as its base 154 Special Attack and almost limitless special coverage are enough to send almost everything running in fear, and that's just the beginning. If you thought you could simply send in a special sponge such as Snorlax to take it on, you might want to reconsider, as Mewtwo's physical attacking capabilities are not to be overlooked either, as it frequently runs Fighting-type coverage to nail unfortunate Snorlax and the stray Tyranitar. It also happens to learn Self-Destruct for more extreme damage, and it can also make good use of Curse if so desired. Lastly, should you decide you want your Mewtwo to stick around over the course of a match, its bulk is not to be overlooked, especially since it's complemented by Recover.

So what are its flaws? How do you beat it? Perhaps Mewtwo's only drawbacks are a lack of a good boosting move outside Curse and a lack of a clear defensive niche, which in practice limit the impact it has on a game by a significant amount. It also can't run all of its coverage moves simultaneously. But when does it come to actually beating Mewtwo? Well, your options are scarce—Raikou and Zapdos aren't weak to any of Mewtwo's attacks and have good bulk, the same can be said for Mew or Mewtwo. Snorlax is a great choice to take on Mewtwo if it can avoid Mewtwo's unreliable Fighting-type coverage. Lugia can phaze it in a pinch, but it loathes Thunder, while Tyranitar is effective against Mewtwo that lack Fighting-type coverage. Status is also invaluable.

Mew

My, how the times change. These days in ORAS, Mew fails to stand out from the crowd, which makes it crazy to think that in GSC you could plausibly argue that it was the best Pokemon in existence, an assertion that seems insane to almost anyone who's familiar with the Pokemon games. It may lack the great stat lines of Mewtwo, Ho-Oh, and Lugia, but it makes up for that with its movepool, in particular its access to Swords Dance. This boosts its Attack to gargantuan levels, at which point it can start firing powerful attacks using whatever neutral coverage combination tickles your fancy—Shadow Ball or Submission? Go for it. Rock Slide or Earthquake? Those work too. With impeccable neutral coverage coming from just two moveslots, that leaves one free for another move to augment Mew's power. The best options are Soft-Boiled, to capitalise on its solid bulk, or Explosion to destroy just about anything after a boost.

Much like Mewtwo, on paper, Mew is unstoppable, but it tends to prove manageable in practice. This is thanks to its lack of a distinct defensive niche and dependency on Swords Dance, which limits its ability to leave an impact. Another defining flaw is its lack of physical STAB moves, which allows physically bulky Pokemon that aren't hit super effectively by its other moves to do a decent job in checking it. Skarmory stands out here, as it's effective against all conventional Mew sets and can phaze it. Phazers are actually a good means of keeping Mew in check. Strong neutral attacks such as STAB Thunder can be effective in bringing it down, as well as Explosion. Overall, Mew is a fiendishly potent sweeper and wallbreaker.

Conclusion

It's fair to say that GSC Ubers is an exceptionally interesting tier, one that defies expectations. Overall, it has a balanced environment, one with a good mix of defensive juggernauts and offensive monsters, with a decent amount of OU's staples that can hold their own against the Ubers that inhabit the tier as well. In my opinion, it's a highly enjoyable tier, and I encourage you to give it a try![/QUOTE]

 

Do you think Snorlax possibly deserves a mention? I mean, I know it's allowed in OU, but it's a solid bordering on mandatory 'mon in actual Ubers play, so if this is intended as a primer for Ubers - as opposed to just a basic analysis of the 'mons not allowed in OU - Snorlax might merit a section.