ORAS Borderline 0

My noms
ttar --> A rank
exca --> S rank

Ok after playing around some more and testing with others I have came to the conclusion that sand is the best playstyle. I know others agree with me on this!

Ttar supplies sand to a team and it has a lot of utilities that cant be turned down. Being able to check gira-o and fireceus is super important and it gets other stuff that help with role compressional (Thunder wave, rocks, pursuit). Recently Dg9 created an offensive set that ruins gira-o even if it will o wisps it. Its definitely better than a- rank its giving new players the idea that sand is mediocre.

Exca is a complete savage. The only common mon that actually counters it is defensive grassceus that has to run max def to be able to tank a +2 iron head and a +2 burned iron head. Well yes grassceus does a nice job at countering it but it also gives a free switch in to many threats. So at worst you just use grassceus for an ez pivot to mons like heatran or fireceus. Gira-o blocks rapid spin and has access to will o wisp but it does a horrible job at countering it throughout the whole game. After exca iron heads once it can just sd on the next time gira-o comes in and ohko. With every team being weak to ground Excadrill is by far the best sweeper in the metagame and it deserves S rank. Why wouldn't it?

 

Sorry guys, I have been busy with school. As far as the current viability goes, I agree with mags that Excadrill and T-Tar should go to the ranks that he suggested. Sand is ridiculous, few checks and even fewer counters. T-Tar is one of the few almost counters to Gira-O, and provides 100% needed support for the best playstyle in the meta.

I think we should consider Thundy and Latias to go to A+. These mons are very good in the current meta. Thundurus is almost needed on all HO teams, it stops so much in the tier, and is very powerful. Latias provides great support, decent typing, and its walls aren't exactly the most common things in the world. Aegislash isn't very common as it loses to a lot of Ubers that got dropped, and Bisharp is almost not seen in the meta. If you need any more support to this claim, I can provide.

 

I agree with him as well, but taking note here, if you're going to raise Latias because its walls are aren't common, why keep Latios int he same rank? Less support, but CM is a crisp breaker and it can't be taken advantage of by its lesser attacking stats like Latias can.

 

Very true, and tbh, I don't know how I overlooked Latios. Probably cause I use fat balance and I don't think I have used Latios any more than twice in my life, but anyway. I agree with Latios moving up to A+, CM makes for a very very powerful attacker with counters low, it revenges the best Pokemon in the tier, and it can soft check Excadrill with EQ/HP Fire. I agree with a move up of them both.

 

Sorry if my view is stupid cause I haven't played this meta, but how is Arceus-Fire S? To me Mega Zard Y seems to be like the better Fire type, and with Dragons running around, I don't see the potential

 

Hey funbot, thanks for posting! So, there are a couple reasons why Arceus is S. First off, Chary has that 4x Sr weakness. Sr is very very common in this format and Chary becomes that much harder to use. It is a great Wall breaker, and a great balance breaker, but being walled by a bunch of dragon types is not good for this format. Arceus on the other hand, is a great stall breaker with its cm set. SD can also function as an offense and balance breaker. And finally it can function on stall teams as an srer or a Genesect counter. The reason why I say Arceus doesn't get walled by dragon types is because of the option for the cm set to run spacial rend. Sounds odd, but it is definitely a viable option. Hopefully that provided a good enough explanation, if not I can always give you some more details. I am on mobile right now so going on my laptop later and typing a longer one for you wouldn't really be a problem if you needed it.

 

don't forget that arceus forme competition is less fierce than the mega slot competition, meaning that there is less opportunity cost to using arceus-fire

edit: i need new arceus icons could someone do me a favor and get some for me? kthnxbye

 

With sand being so krazy why is latias being moved up. Its just letting rocks be up 100% of the time vs ttar not to mention you are at the risk of getting pursuited. Latios can at least make a dent on ttar with surf. Imo latios is better than latias. sorry on phone cant exactly type well.

I think exca is good to move up now that we all agreed on it.

 

Where is this playable though?

 

Dragalge to D maybe. Adaptability+Toxic Spikes seems a decent niche to me imo.

 

Time to revive lol.

First of all, thanks to Prise, we now have a room for Borderline 0 (yes that is a zero lol). You can find it here!

With sand being crazy right now, I would say move up Latios and keep Latias A for now. Latias is literally dead weight vs sand, just giving free switch ins after free switch ins. I honestly don't see a problem with Dragalge going to D rank, it is a semi-reliable counter to Arceus-Fire, can revenge Gira-O that only carry Dtail, and like Ranbu said it gets access to Tspikes. I have more updated, but that leads me into my next point.

Mudvayne please start updating the viability, if not I will try to take it over myself. I will leave a list of what needs to be done below for you, just to make the task easier.

Updates:

Excadrill to S
Latios to A+
Tyranitar to A
Fix MSab's name.
Talonflame to A
Mega Pinsir to A-

Discussion Points:

Dragalge to C+/D
Qwilfish to D
Forretress to C+/D
Hippowdon to B+
Mega Medicham to B+

That is all for now, if you would like to discuss the points/other things not listed, do so on here or on the server I linked, we encourage it! Thank you to everyone who has posted so far, and let's keep it going.

 

Throw Mega Audino at B+ cause it counters gira-o and checks deo n to an extent. It can fit well on stall because it gives u a nice answer to cm gira-o and can wall deo n long enough (sooner or later deo n powers through especially if hazards are up). I think sneak gira-o and Audino are all you need for deo n on stall tbh. Other than checking 2 s rank mons its a decent cleric. If you wanna be cheezy you can run snatch to check cm fireceus (shaky check). It can fit on balance teams that appreciate a hard counter to gira-o and not only that it has access to healing wish making it somewhat cool on balance teams because who doesnt love 2 gira's or fireceus. I guess it could run other stuff like misty terrain if your balance team is fast paced but the possibilities are endless lol! Yea most people think its a waste of a mega but in reality its B+ material and I bet its a game changer for all the teams that rely on gira-o to stallbreak.

 

I haven't heard of a Pokemon called DG9. (B Rank)

Or Christmas Tree. (C Rank)

I suspect "Christmas Tree" means Mega Sceptile given its alphabetisation and sprite, but it might be a good idea just to call it that?

 

There's also breloominati and kami

personally I find it weird to have those in the viab ranks but it's up to DG9 etc as to how nice the viab ranks looks. Since it's not a part of PP's main Singles tiers they're pretty much free to do what they want.

 

The server is not working for me, anyone else having this problem?

 

They're both jokes but I'm removing them for sake of clarity and because it jus tmakes it easier to sift through without the dumb joke mons. Changing names of Pokemon back to their original ones as well.

Sorry about the delay but I was kind of absent from Showdown in general for a few days. Finishing up updates now...

I've had a huge conversation with DG9 about this nom and in no way do I think it should be any higher than C, sure, it can support, sure, it checks some of the S ranks (which can beat it if they run the right move), but it has its flaws, is generally outclassed by Chansey/Blissey (and being forced to run the set it has to in this meta still makes it just as passive) it also has no reliable recovery, making it difficult to keep healthy to 'check' threats. Sure there's wishpass, and you can admit stall might need it, but considering how mediocre stall is... it shouldn't be that high.

Also having 'wishpass being required on stall' or 'stall needs this stall needs that' isn't that big of an argument, that just shows how much support it needs to shine on stall builds. Stall builds new support to shine that much, that's why stall isn't that great.

 

Wishpass is good on stall and the only reason stall wasn't too great is because Gira-o can either dtail spam or just ruin stall with its offensive sets. Now that you have a counter and you can compress wish passing and a deo n check all into the same mon it makes stall/balance a lot better. Blissey/Chansey can't actually check Gira-O unless they are running snatch but Audino doesn't need snatch to completely wall Gira-O. The only problem I see with it is the oppurtunity cost of not being able to use mega sableye but then again you actually stand a chance vs offensive Gira-O and Audino checks deo n which was msabs job anyways.

Mega Scizor to B+ because of the oppurtunity cost of using a mega that basically just sits there and spams uturn and toxic because its completely walled by 2 many things. I guess bullet punch is nice but with Fireceus and Tran and Gira-O being really common I just don't see how this is A- rank. I haven't seen 1 good team with it.

 

So you're gonna raise it so fucking high because it checks ONE S RANK? Remember that NP Deo-N just demolishes it anyway, lol, and you're compressing wishpass into it tho? Doesn't it like, want to run some dumb passive shit like Rest, Talk, Knock Off, Filler? Filler could be like, Wish, but that feels so redundant to me. You're saying stall is trash because of Gira-O but we also have Deo-N, Swords Dance Excadrill, CM Latios, Landorus-I. CharX, Azu, Arceus-Fire, all in high ranks. They all can do some good shit to stall. We brought down a shit load of stall/wallbreakers, removed STAG (one of stalls best assets), and those stall/wallbreakers JUST SO HAPPEN to be some of the best mons on the ranking list.More than half of those can beat Audino lmfao. I'm still abiding by C at max. It needs a lot of support to function and doesn't exactly 'win' against a lot of the stuff it's supposed to check. Especially against hazard stack, which you'll miss MSab against.

It's two sets would be like, what, RestTalk CM. Wish + Tect Knock Off Filler.

Some shit like that, only one that's not passive as a muthafucka is RestTalk CM and it can't wishpass for role compression. I know it can run some other shit but all that stuff stands out to me.

 

I wonder what would happen if you used Np deo n check along side mega Audino which checks mixed. I wonder if you had a support arc that denies spikes. I wonder if that support arc checks sword dance excadrill. I wonder if you had spikes yourself. I wonder if you didn't restrict yourself to rest/talk a shit set and just ran wish/tect/healbell/knock off. I wonder if you have teammates when using Mega Audino. It's not gonna check the entire meta but it checks the most common set for deoxys and it gets a free switch in on Gira-O. Actually countering Gira-O itself should put it up at B rank... and you say blobs outclass it but they dont even counter Deo n or Gira-O and they are just as passive as Audino. Look at the other mons in B+ and then look at the mons in B rank. It fits nice in B+ when you compare it to other pokemon. It's much easier to put on a team than any other B rank mon I wouldn't say its the best B+ mon but it should definitely be ranked there.

 

You're just trying to justify it's ranking by listing every single bit of support the thing needs. I'm going to have to explain this, checking 1 s rank half assly and 'countering' Gira-O, so just because it checks it it should be in B+. That makes zero sense. I get that it is a godsend for stall and all that horse shit but there are still things that can eat through your little core there. Stall in this meta game is borderline impossible to cover every thing. If it's gonna be the new face of stall it shouldn't be that high. At least msab balance is good and it gives a shit load of support vs hazard stack. Lol

I'm never gonna say it shouldn't be ranked but if you really think that it fits in with Char, Chomp, and company. I think it should not go past B-, period. You've convinced me of that. I'll support it in B-.