GSC OU Ash Ketchum / Trainer Red team

Been a little lax on posts lately so I figured it's due time to do something. Here's a "themed" team i've seen attempted a few times in gen 2 but never really felt anyone really nailed it. The theme is Ash Ketchum/Red, so the gen 1 starters, Pikachu, stuff that kinda spins from the anime, you get the picture. It's intended to be legitimately competitive in OU, but primarily for fun and theme above all else.

1.Snorlax @ leftovers
Curse, double edge, rest, sleep talk
Obviously no electric legend might this time, so this poke, slot and moveset are an absolute must. Can't have status spread in this team, it simply can't function under status's and legendaries will slaughter without this guy.

2.Pikachu @ light ball
Sing, Thunder, surf, Thunder wave
Standard obligatory electric for this theme. Obviously you don't go throwing it into all situations like raikou and zapdos, it has very little life, no leftovers and no recovery so use him wisely. Late game it can do well if you've worn some of your opponents team down. T.wave can help venusaur and zard against electrics, sing for snorlax.

3.Blastoise @ leftovers
Toxic, surf, rapid spin, rest
Really struggled to find the right set with this one, Blastoise is a beast in the ohko circuit but certainly the most passive of the 3 in normal rules. This was just the right set to enable it to function to full potential as a spinner I.e. it can beat the spikers toe to toe. It could have mirror coat just as a way to take out their electric but personally I like the usability of this set.

4. Venusaur @ leftovers
Sleep powder, growth, giga drain, hp fire
Venusaur's a bit of an oddball, it does very well against raikou/skarmory teams but is utterly walled by zapdos so don't even try. The key to using him is stack them growths; don't settle with just 1. Typically your oponent will try and use lax against him and that's great: Sleep it, then keep growthing, once you're set up the recovery will take care of itself, just try to get fully boosted before you start burning up giga drains. Also remember venusaur outspeeds exeggutor and that can make a huge difference if you utilise that speed to sleep it or land a key hidden power.

5. Charizard @ leftovers
Belly drum, earthquake, rock slide, fire blast
Actually quite a key player on this team as you don't have any legendary electrics and this is the fastest poke. If you succesfully paralyse their raikou/zapdos then Charizard just rocks for taking them out and it's normally the deciding factor for this team actually. You know the drill; pick your timing carfully, drum and destroy.

6. Steelix @ leftovers
Curse, earthquake, roar, explosion
I don't remember if this is a legit "Ash Ketchum" poke or not? Been a few moons since I watched any Pokemon anime but I had a feeling there was at least an onyx in there at some point? Either way I wasn't putting Butterfree in here and Steelix absolutely needed this slot if this team was to stand any chance in OU. Standard really, less than ideal shuffler with the absence of spikes but this team needs a lax check/phazer and this is simply the right Pokemon for that slot.

 

If you're making a team according to what he used in GSC, Espeon should be the 6th Pokemon. If you're playing according to his team in HG/SS, you should use Lapras.

 

That's what he had in the cartridges? I don't fully remember, I remember it being a bit of a rolling development. Espeon sure would be a welcome replacement for Pikachu but really the team has to adhere to the cliché anime/ starter theme

 

Yeah, his team in GSC is Pikachu/three RB starters/Snorlax/Espeon. In HGSS he uses Lapras instead of Espeon.

 

Since that 6th Pokemon isn't consistent though, can't we be a little lenient on ourselves and say that the 6th Pokemon is pretty much undefined?

 

If you really wanted to, you could make a bunch of different Ash teams; for example:

Seasons 1-2 team: Pikachu/Butterfree/Pidgeot/Charizard/Blastoise/Venusaur
Seasons 3-4 team: Pikachu/Primeape/Gengar/Charizard/Kingler/Venusaur

I don't know what Pokemon he had in the Johto series besides Totodile and Chikorita.

 

What's funny is I felt just like you James. I was hoping someone had already pulled this off, but it seemed like wherever I looked, no one did a real team. I mean this one dude on YouTube had an emulator match using a Red team, but it was just a copy paste from smogon basically. No one really nailed Red's team, and I took a shot at it a few months ago. My team is a WIP, but I've had some fun matches with it. I posted this around the forums I frequent. Sadly they don't seem interested in oldschool meta, so it's hard to get any advice. Anywho, the team!



"Pika" @Lightball
~Thunder
~Surf
~Agility
~Substitute


"Vee" @PRZ Cure Berry
~Psychic
~Growth
~Morning Sun
~Hidden Power (Water)


"Snor" @Quick Claw
~Earthquake
~Flamethrower
~Lovely Kiss
~Self Destruct


"Saur" @MysteryBerry
~Giga Drain
~Hidden Power (Fire)
~Growth
~Sleep Powder


"Blast" @Leftovers
~Zap Cannon
~Ice Beam
~Protect
~Roar


"Char" @Scope Lens
~Fire Blast
~Crunch
~Dynamic Punch
~Hidden Power (Electric)

Here's the team in action: [Gen 2] OU replay: Sk4r3kr0w_-_ vs. Itsbme - Pokmon Showdown

Now this team is still a WIP like I said, so I'm not sure how good it is if I played more skilled players with better teams, but so far it holds up. Maybe down the line i'll find out some of my sets are terrible, but i'm having fun trying it out. I haven't done much number crunching, so maybe down the road i'll find out stuff like Crunch on Charizard is dumb and would be better off with Sunny Day + FBlast. I think a lot of my teams success is the surprise factor, but I can depend on gimmicks like DPunch or Zap Cannon status bailing me out. Sometimes luck fails me, but when this team pulls it off I feel like a boss.

Also cool to see you running that Venusaur set too. I got that from I think Mount Silver forums. It catches people off guard. I have thoughts to redo some of these sets. I thought about something hilarious like Espeon with Scope Lens plus Focus Energy to Baton Pass, or Dream Eater. I feel like my Blastoise could be better too. I used to run Counter. Oh well, anyway...

If you have any critiques go ahead. It was cool to see someone else feel inspired to do a Red team some justice. Sorry if I'm stealing your thunder. Just maybe we can give each other some ideas. I'm all for making this a bad ass team.

P.S. I don't blame you for running Steelix. Zapdos and Raikou can ruin this team.

 

I took a crack at one of these.


Pikachu @Light Ball
~Thunder
~Surf
~Hidden Power (Fire)
~Substitute

HP Fire gives me Egg coverage. I choose it over HP Ice because I figure OHKOing Forretress is generally going to be more useful than 2HKOing Dnite. Thunderbolt is the STAB of choice because missing is just too costly with the Pika, and +1 Tbolt will still 3HKO Lax. I use Sub over Sing because the former makes mispredictions less costly, whereas the latter is a good way to get yourself killed (plus Venu will want Sleep to stay on the table). Perhaps I'm being a little too worried about whether Pika lives or dies, but idk; when the possibility of a Growth pass is on the table, I figure it's better to keep Pika in reserve than to get reckless and possibly lose that option before the game really even starts.


Espeon @Leftovers
~Psychic
~Growth
~Morning Sun
~Baton Pass

Espeon is nice because it checks Gengar and also passes Growths to a bunch of things that appreciate it (Pika, Venu, even Zard).


Snorlax @Leftovers
~Double-Edge
~Curse
~Rest
~Sleep Talk

Gluemon. I share Jame$ G's conviction that not using ST Lax is a good way to lose control of most of your matches when using a gimmick team like this.


Venusaur @Leftovers
~Giga Drain
~Hidden Power (Ice)
~Growth
~Sleep Powder

I use HP Ice to KO Zapdos. Considering it generally runs Sleep Talk and outspeeds you, I figure it's more important to be able to deter Zapdos from sitting in front of you all day than it is to have Steel coverage.


Blastoise @Leftovers
~Surf
~Toxic
~Rapid Spin
~Roar

Utilitymon. Nowhere else is there a good place to put Roar, nor is there another mon capable of having an impact on the Spikes game. It also checks nasty things like Ttar and Marowak.



Charizard @Leftovers
~Fire Blast
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide
~Belly Drum

DrumZard is probably my only "true" physical threat (outside of Snorlax, of course, but only Zard has coverage). +1 from Espy means it OHKOs Cloyster with Fire Blast (and guarantees the OHKO on Exeggutor!), which is always nice. Rock Slide flinches can win games, it's so fun to cheese with this thing.

 

In my short experience, I agree with HP ice on venusaur. Like every match with my version of the team Zapdos consistently makes Venusaur get walled, and that makes more sense since it's the only thing besides Snorlax that should be fighting Zapdos. I'm going to have to steal that from you. I might switch my blastoise set to that one as well, but I like gimmicks.

 

I like these teams! I'd not even considered hp ice on saur but it does make more sense. What kinda dmg does that do to Zappy? The main question I have for espeon over Steelix is what's the plan for taking on snorlax?

 

Really, Jorgen's Snorlax is the best bet for fending off other Snorlax I think.

As for HP Ice vs. Zapdos...

Venusaur Hidden Power Ice vs. Zapdos: 110-130 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Venusaur Hidden Power Ice vs. Zapdos: 163-192 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 Venusaur Hidden Power Ice vs. Zapdos: 217-256 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 Venusaur Hidden Power Ice vs. Zapdos: 272-320 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 Venusaur Hidden Power Ice vs. Zapdos: 326-384 (85.1 - 100.2%) -- 2.6% chance to OHKO
+5 Venusaur Hidden Power Ice vs. Zapdos: 364-428 (95 - 111.7%) -- 69.2% chance to OHKO

Also, some other funny damage rolls...

+1 Light Ball Pikachu Surf vs. Steelix: 355-418 (100.5 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 Light Ball Pikachu Hidden Power Fire vs. Exeggutor: 350-412 (89 - 104.8%) -- 30.8% chance to OHKO
Light Ball Pikachu Thunder vs. Suicune: 313-368 (77.6 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Light Ball Pikachu Thunder vs. Suicune: 466-548 (115.6 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (thanks Espeon!)
Blastoise Zap Cannon vs. Cloyster: 205-242 (67.6 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Charizard Crunch vs. Starmie: 137-162 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Charizard DynamicPunch vs. Tyranitar: 245-288 (60.7 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

lol

Also, upon using a damage calculator, I'm not liking HP Electric on Charizard. I never had a chance to use HP while using him, but now that I see it actually is less effective on Cloyster...
Charizard Hidden Power Electric vs. Cloyster: 170-200 (56.1 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after
Leftovers recovery

Now with Sunny Day plus Charcoal..
Charcoal Charizard Fire Blast vs. Cloyster in Sun: 357-420 (117.8 - 138.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I mean maybe catching it on a switch with HP Electric would be cool, but this may be more optimum. I might have to give that a shot! If I did, i'd probably have:


@Charcoal
~Fire Blast
~Crunch
~Dynamic Punch
~Sunny Day